Plants from the Bathonian of France

[Dorian']

Hi,

I would like to show you some plants that I found in the (middle probably) Bathonian of the soutwestern France, near the edge of the "Massif Central".

So, I will describe the context of the find quicly :

We can find some vegetals in micritic layers intercalated in sublitographic-limestone layers, very often they're fragments of lignitized wood (sometimes with a wonderful conservation and visible tracheids) but it can be reddish wood not lignitized or fragments of leaves.

The first mention that I found is Monteil (1977) who indicates the discovery in a neighboring township of two leaf imprints of Otozamites sp. But this source isn't necessarily the most reliable because there are many inaccuracies or errors, but this is the only mention found this period and this area.

So, for my own samples, this would be a flora from "wetlands", unusual for the french Jurassic (I believe that only one was found but a little younger, from the upper Oxfordian) and, more interesting, one (at least) of them was supposed to be Sagenopteris sp., a species of Caytoniales ("seed ferns"), never found in France.

So here are the leaf imprints (or leaves) of some samples (normally the scales are correct but it is possible that I made a mistake). If someone has an identification idea or a suggestion I would be very grateful to him.

1a : Fern ?

1b

2 Fern with sporangia

3 ?

4 Fern with sporangia

5 Fern with sporangia

6

7

8

9 Fern with sporangia ?

10 Fern with sporangium

11

12

13

14 Fern ?

15

Edited April 13, 2016 by Dorian'

[Dorian']

16

17

And the presumed Sagenopteris sp. :

18

It's sample (traduction : half-fragment of leaf of fern without nervation with sporangium, corresponding to the tenth) :

19 (Sagenopteris?)

20 (the same?)

21 Stem ?

22 Lignitized wood

23 Coiled leaf

24 (Sagenopteris?)

[Fossildude19]

Wonderful images, and a potentially significant find!

Congratulations.

Regards,

[Dorian']

Thank-you.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Dorian'

[Dorian']

To explain a little better the context if someone is interested : Massif Central's coasts were very close (in middle Bathonian, even if it this not the same level, less than a kilometer from the deposit there are ripple marks), plants probably cames from the Massif Central (or from a lagoon off this one) wich was at that time some high moutains (remains from the Hercynian belt) bordered by a vast peneplain. Other plant deposits were reported for the middle Jurassic on its west border but never explored.

Also, there are, in the micritic limestone, some ovoids wich are may be oolites (in small amounts, always dispersed and never perfectly spherical), or oncoids, if it is oolites we should may be be able to associate with smaller fragments (environment agitated including more broken leaves). Some crystals are also found, sometimes in high levels, certainly gypsum, that might be evaporites and indicate a temporary emersion (and possibly provide additional information confirming the presence of a lagoon).

[abyssunder]

Could be a starting point,although I'm no specialist in this, so what would I say is merely a guess. I'm leaning toward something like Phlebopteris rather than Sagenopteris. I've seen a few from the Bathonian Great Oolite Series of Leicestershire, UK and I think they looks close to yours (at least to some of them). Here are some specimens that I think could be considered as reference. Try to compare.

Sagenopteris sp. Phlebopteris woodwardii

The Stomatal Ontogeny and Structure of the Liassic Pteridosperm Sagenopteris (Caytoniales) from Hungary.pdf

[Dorian']

I recognize that I was suprised by this identification proposed by a PhD student which appeared quite self-confident but the pictures Sagenopteris show a very different morphology (in fact there are not many picture on internet and I thought than he had access to more papers than me). For Phlebopteris it looks more like my finds and this genus is signaled for the middle Bathonian of France but it would take more pictures to confirm, I'll see what I can find. I had already the study of Barbacka and Boka, it is the best source of pictures of Sagenopteris that I find.

I'm very grateful to you for the help and this new possiblity.

[Dorian']

I realise that I'm not back to give you some news about my plants.

So in fact, like abyssunder said, and after a serious identification by a researcher (that I thank very much) it is a Phlebopteris leaf.

[abyssunder]

I'm glad to hear that someone probably more knowledgeable than me is confirming my thought, leading to the same conclusion. Thank you for the reprise.
Also, specimen 22,  I think could be a cycadeoid cone.

[Dorian']

Thanks again, for the cone I think too and I don't know why i've noted "Lignitized wood", it's a mistake. Nevertheless I don't know if it is a cycadeoid or a conifer cone like the researcher said, I don't really know how to recognize and differentiate both (if you have any paper about it I am interested)..