MithosKuu Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I recently got a copy of the Princeton Field Guide to Dinosaurs and decided to attempt to model a Velociraptor skeleton, maybe 3d print it once its done. Unfortunately the book doesn't include any front or back views of the skeleton so I would love some anatomical feedback. In addition, I could use a little help identifying the bones in red in this image: They aren't visible in the top view I have, so I don't know how they are supposed to connect with the rest of the rib cage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 The bones in red are uncinate processes found on some Avian Dinosaurs including Velociraptor's. Did some research on Velo's and here is what I found. Five uncinate processes have been seen on a one side of a specimen extending from the proximal edge around the midpoint of the third to seventh rib. They extend to the edge of the edge of the second following rib. They are not ossified to the rib but may have been attached by cartilage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 The bones in red are uncinate processes found on some Avian Dinosaurs including Velociraptor's. Did some research on Velo's and here is what I found. Five uncinate processes have been seen on a one side of a specimen extending from the proximal edge around the midpoint of the third to seventh rib. They extend to the edge of the edge of the second following rib. They are not ossified to the rib but may have been attached by cartilage. 20160601_203031.jpg That was totally it, thanks! I've added the next two Vertebra and Ribs, along with the start of the Pectoral Girdle, though I think I need to have it curve back in towards the center, once I have the rest of the ribs in place I'll readjust it to follow their curvature. Also tossed on a turbosmooth modifier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triceratops Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Looks good! What program are you using to create the model? -Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 looks promising! J Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Very nice. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Thanks for the compliments guys! Looks good! What program are you using to create the model? I am using an older version of 3ds Max, though the techniques I'm using are fairly basic and can be easily replicated in cheaper/free modeling programs Finished up most of the rib cage, just need the Keel bone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Added the Keel, Ischium, and the first two Neck vertebra, and I've adjusted the shoulder blades to follow the flow of the ribs a little better. It took a while to get the neck vertebra to look decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Finished up the neck, starting on the skull. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Looks very nice so far. Isn't the skull a little wide though? Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) Looks very nice so far. Isn't the skull a little wide though? It is certainly possible, the skeletal images I'm using are technically hand drawn, with plenty of flexure in the top down view, and, distressingly, there is a noticeable difference in skull length between the two views which I am not sure how to compensate for. There is also the fact that my main piece of reference art didn't have a scale indicator, I grabbed the scale image from wikipedia and attempted to resize my reference art to match that, using head size as my main guide. However it appears my tail will be about 1/5ths longer than wikipedia's tail, so I might be too big overall and need to scale down once I'm done. If it helps, my skull is currently 7.68cm across at it's widest point. Edited June 5, 2016 by MithosKuu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Not sure this will help on the skull. Scale bar is 4cm Link http://scientificillustration.tumblr.com/post/15669260648/theropod-reconstruction-of-skull-in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Not sure this will help on the skull. Scale bar is 4cm Link http://scientificillustration.tumblr.com/post/15669260648/theropod-reconstruction-of-skull-in tumblr_lw0esxf9yo1qlpvdxo1_500.png Haha, whoops, looks like my scale is way off, thankfully that is an easy fix, thanks for the image! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) So, it turns out the back part of the skull on my model and my original reference art is the same size as that new reference material, yet the proportions of the rest of the skull are completely different. Considering the new art is much more detailed and appears to be of a specific specimen rather than a generic one, I'm going to assume it is the more accurate one, once I model the jaw I will resize them to match the new art. Lots of little bits that need to go into the interior of the skull, it's taking a bit. And yeah, my snout is looking a lot thicker than it should be, looks like I'm sweeping all the way from the nose to the eye ridge, I'll have to tighten that up once I rescale everything. Edited June 6, 2016 by MithosKuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Pocock Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Looking better and better, keep us posted i'm looking forward to seeing the finished article. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Looking better and better, keep us posted i'm looking forward to seeing the finished article. Regards Mike Thanks man! Jaw bone roughed out, still needs work back where it connects with the skull. I'm not sure if the jaw is supposed to be two separate bones or if its supposed to fuse together at the end of the skull, in any case they will be brought closer together when I adjust the scale of the snout, which I'll do once I add teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Impressive progress! I am quite sure the jawbones should be fused (unlike in Pelicans, baleen Whales and Snakes, who can open their mouths very wide for special purposes) Experts, please correct me if Velociraptor could do that. In other animals, that symphysis often falls apart after death, but the halves fit together closely. Cheers, J Edited June 7, 2016 by Mahnmut Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Here is an illustration of a reconstructed skull with mandible. The attached link indicates that it was based on several sources because the skull it was based on (GIN 100/25) which was a bit crushed and had a poorly preserved mandible. I also attached the pdf paper on GIN 100/25. This is one of the best preserved skulls discovered. Like Mahnmut indicated the dentary's come together and actually fit inside the uppers https://qilong.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/making-lip-of-it/ app44-189.pdf Edited June 7, 2016 by Troodon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) Here is an illustration of a reconstructed skull with mandible. The attached link indicates that it was based on several sources because the skull it was based on (GIN 100/25) which was a bit crushed and had a poorly preserved mandible. I also attached the pdf paper on GIN 100/25. This is one of the best preserved skulls discovered. Like Mahnmut indicated the dentary's come together and actually fit inside the uppers velociraptor-skull-base-sm.jpg https://qilong.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/making-lip-of-it/ app44-189.pdf That's going to be very helpful, thanks! I've started working on the updated skull that better matches GIN 100/25, I was just going to edit the existing one but after messing around with it I felt it would be easier to just rebuild it from scratch. Also, here is the old skull on top of the new one, for comparison; Edited June 8, 2016 by MithosKuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Taking a third shot at the skull, this time including the interior detail from the image Troodon posted. trying to fit it in was tough, especially since I had to make a lot of the detail larger to fit the 2mm thickness requirement for potential 3d printing. Also here is a comparison between the three skulls, the anatomical variance between the various reference pieces has been fun : D Edited June 11, 2016 by MithosKuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 Just about done with the skull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Looks great! Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Does look good and will be vicious with a set of chompers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgroper Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 This looks fantastic mate, really clever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithosKuu Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Thanks for all the kind words!I've made significant progress on the back of the head, started expanding the interior structure of the skull, adjusted the position and orientation of the orbital bones (though I think I still need to move them forward and inset them a bit more), and thickened up the front of the jaw on the inside to better match reference material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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