Sgreeley Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 So, this find is why I created my account on the Fossil Forum. I was out looking for agates and jasper on the Pawnee National Grasslands when I discovered two mandibles and a complete skull. I will post pictures of the jaw bones at a later date, I think that the skull alone is worthy of a discussion. Because of the hefty fines and potential jail time for removing vertebrate fossils from the Pawnee National Grasslands, I left it where it was, which was very difficult for me to do. Now, on to the fossil itself, I first thought it was a prairie dog skull. I soon realized that it was indeed a fossil, completely mineralized and partially incased in rock. Just with the way the front teeth look I do think it is some kind of rodent or relative thereof, but I am very interested to see what you all think of it. To the extent of my knowledge finding full skulls like this with little damage is uncommon, to say the least. It is right around 2 inches long, and maybe an inch wide. The size of the eye sockets led me to think it may have belonged to a nocturnal critter, but that is pure guess work on my part. Ps. I don't know how well I did posting these pictures, I had to resize them quite a bit to be able to upload them. Let me know if they look decent and are proportioned properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHyatt Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) Would this be Oligocene, Brule and Arikaree formations? From pumpkinhead's comment, views of Leptictis: Edited June 29, 2016 by CraigHyatt 1 Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkinhead Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 This link might help: https://www.dmr.nd.gov/ndfossil/Research/Short%20Papers/white_river.asp My best guess is that this is from the Brule formation, because what I've read says that the Arikaree formation is less fossiliferous and the Brule formation is the only one I could find rodent species in during my search. My best guess based off of this resource is Leptictis, but don't take my word for it. I'm not really a vertebrate guy. Nice find, and welcome to the forum 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 That's a really nice find! And welcome to the forum John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Awesome skull. I admire your ethics and standards,... in leaving it where it was found. Not an easy thing to do. Well done, however. Also - the photos are good, I would just try to crop them more, to have less background in the image. Like this: Cropping can reduce the image size quite a bit. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 I wonder if there is a staff paleontologist to whom one could report the find? Ideally someone you could phone and text a photo, so they could say "stay there and I'll be right out" or "bring it to the office" or "leave it where it is". Certainly "leave it where it is" will mean it will be gone in a rainstorm or two, or by next year at the most. Erosion is relentless. Perhaps that is the plan, but it would seem that such a find would better be conserved. Anyway I admire your willpower to put it down and walk away. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgreeley Posted June 29, 2016 Author Share Posted June 29, 2016 Thanks for all the great replies everyone, they have been very helpful. Would this be Oligocene, Brule and Arikaree formations? I do believe that it is Oligocene, just due to the location. However, interestingly, I found the skull away from the terraces that are generally associated with fossils from the Pawnee Buttes, so there is a chance that it is of a different time period. And those pictures of the Leptictis are very similar, its my best lead so far- thank you for the link Pumpkinhead. I wonder if there is a staff paleontologist to whom one could report the find? Ideally someone you could phone and text a photo, so they could say "stay there and I'll be right out" or "bring it to the office" or "leave it where it is". Certainly "leave it where it is" will mean it will be gone in a rainstorm or two, or by next year at the most. Erosion is relentless. Perhaps that is the plan, but it would seem that such a find would better be conserved. I will look into that because I am sure the fossil will be destroyed soon enough, either by rainstorms or the cattle. I find it funny that the laws are in place to protect things of scientific importance, but that it actually means more specimens get lost to time. Thanks again to everyone- Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHyatt Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) Personally, I didn't think the Leptictis skulls matched all that well. Matches a modern vole a little better... maybe. I am pretty clueless. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvicolinae Edited June 29, 2016 by CraigHyatt 1 Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Not Lepticitis... this is Paleolagus, the White River rabbit. Notice the lattice work of bone in front of the eyes. That alone says rabbit. As for a staff paleontologist, Barb Beasely is the one in charge of USFS lands in NE, CO, WY and maybe the Dakotas and MT. I am not sure what her take is on finds like this. I think she is housed in the Chadron office of the Nebraska Nat'l Grassland. Nice find. Good job, though, leaving it as is, as difficult as it may be. By the way, Paleolagus is the most common animal in the White River Fm. Some will tell you Merycoidodon is, but they do not look at the small stuff. That is from my personal experience. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHyatt Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Kind of small for a rabbit, isn't it? Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) Welcome to the forum! I also congratulate you on your ethics. I'm not sure if this is in her region, but you may want to contact Barb Beasley at the Forest Service. She would be able to tell you who you could report it to (if not her). You may want to take down GPS coordinates (even it it is just those from the compass feature of your cell phone) when you find something like this. The Forest Service conducts digs using volunteers through the Passport In Time program. If a really good site is discovered on Forest Service lands, I'm sure they would be interested. Barbs contact information: Barbara A. Beasley, MS Paleontologist Forest Service Nebraska National Forests and Grasslands p: 308-432-0351 c: 308-430-2793 f: 308-432-0309 babeasley@fs.fed.us Looks like JPC beat me to the punch! Edited June 29, 2016 by GeschWhat Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 That is one of the early rabbits in the fossil record. Kind of small for a rabbit, isn't it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Kind of small for a rabbit, isn't it? Rabbits have babies too. 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHyatt Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Rabbits have babies too. baby-rabbit-in-hand.jpg Poor little feller. Got fossilized before he ate his first carrot. :-( Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Kind of small for a rabbit, isn't it? maybe for a modern jackrabbit, but this is the size of Paleolagus (although there is a rare bigger species). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgreeley Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think Paleolagus is spot on. I have to say I am very impressed with all the information I got and with how quickly the forum identified this fossil. Thank you all again, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 i agree with rabbit 100%. it looks almost identical to a modern White tail rabbit skull. very nice find! ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 That is one of the early rabbits in the fossil record. earliest in North America... there are Eocene bunnies in Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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