edd Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 It is now well accepted that the ancient Neanderthals who thrived in Europe before the arrival of modern humans formed complex societies. From painting caves to producing jewelry, they are also thought to have performed rituals for their dead. Now, archaeologists studying Neanderthal remains discovered in Belgiumthink they may have been practicing something a bit more gruesome. Bone fragments excavated over 100 years ago in the Goyet caves in central Belgium show evidence that the bodies of the dead were intentionally butchered. The scrapes and cut marks on the 40,500-year-old bones were consistent with those seen on reindeer bones also found in the cave. This suggests, claim the researchers, that the occupants may have been eating their dead. “These indications allow us to assume that Neanderthals practiced cannibalism,” said Hervé Bocherens, who co-authored the paper published in Scientific Reports. “The many remains of horses and reindeer found in Goyet were processed the same way.” While the evidence clearly shows that the living were removing the flesh from the dead, what it can’t show are the reasons behind this. Whether they were removing the skin and meat purely to eat the dead, or whether it was actually part of some form of ritual is impossible to tell. Evidence of these symbolic acts have been discovered in other parts of Europe, such as in Spain, but this is the first time evidence of Neanderthals skinning, cutting up, and removing the bone marrow of their dead have been found north of the Alps. Not only that, but it seems that they were also taking the bones of the dead and fashioning them into tools. Out of 99 bone fragments assessed, they found that one thigh bone and three shin bones were used as knapping tools to shape other stones. The researchers were also able to perform a complete analysis of mitochondrial DNA for 10 individuals represented by the bone fragments, doubling the total number of Neanderthals for which this has been done. Their findings support earlier ones that showed that the genetic diversity of Neanderthals in northern Europe was drastically reduced in the run up to them dying out. What is also interesting is how those Neanderthals living in Goyet dealt with their dead differently to other populations in the surrounding areas. No other site in the region has found indications that Neanderthals butchered their dead; on the contrary, they have yielded burials instead. “The big differences in the behavior of these people on the one hand, and the close genetic relationship between late European Neanderthals on the other, raise many questions about the social lives and exchange between various groups,” saidBocherens. Neandertal bone fragments from at least five individuals, which were found in the Troisième caverne. The fragments marked with a star were dated to 40,500 - 45,500 years old. Scale shown = 3cm. Photo: Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences. Image in body: Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences http://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog/belgian-neanderthals-were-butchering-their-dead/ " We're all puppets, I'm just a puppet who can see the strings. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) thanks again,Edd,although quaternary hominid culture is not REALLY my thing, this is intrinsically interesting,anyway. At least one other forum member will read this Edited July 8, 2016 by doushantuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haventbaptized Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Very interesting article I have to admit. Thanks for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFL Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Very interesting. I wonder if the bones were actually kills from them hunting Neanderthal from other tribes and they simply butchered them where they butchered the rest of their kills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) searchterms for all of these articles anthropology butchering,alternatively with "hominid" and/or "Neanderthal" http://in-africa.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/OConnell-JF-et-al-1988-JAR-Hadza-hunting-butchering-and-bone-transport.pdf lyman: https://faculty.missouri.edu/~lymanr/pdfs/2005cutmarks.pdf Edited July 8, 2016 by doushantuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257118119_Cutmark_systematics_Analyzing_morphometrics_and_spatial_patterning_at_Palangana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/current/readings/antecessor-canibal.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 People should avoid the urge to jump to assumptions. The "butchering" might be preparation for the afterlife. Some burial customs are very odd, and foreign cultures often see them as evil, but normally it is done in reverence of the dead. Often the bones are considered the valuable part of the deceased relative, so the flesh is removed and the bones are kept to represent that person. A common method of doing this is to either leave the corpse exposed, but guarded from animals, so the flesh is picked off and leaves the bones, or the corpse is buried and then dug up a year later after the flesh has decayed away. Sometimes the organs are removed and stored, so that the deceased can have them in the afterlife. There are a lot of death traditions that seem odd to us, because we mostly just use burial or cremation nowadays, but don't assume that these other methods are some type of evil ritual. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDudeCO Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Great article. Thanks for sharing edd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredinBoise Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I know 40KYA is borderline and Can't tell from the story, but just how sure are they that this was not a modern site eating the HSN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgehiker Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Neanderthals may have invented the first fully loaded pizza...everybody on it. Anyways, various hominids have been eating each other for millennia either as a food source or in ritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHyatt Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Often the bones are considered the valuable part of the deceased relative, so the flesh is removed and the bones are kept to represent that person. A common method of doing this is to either leave the corpse exposed, but guarded from animals, so the flesh is picked off and leaves the bones, or the corpse is buried and then dug up a year later after the flesh has decayed away. That is exactly right. When I travelled in Kenya, I spoke with some Luo friends about this burial practice. Actually, it may have the psychological benefit of giving closure by visual and physical confirmation of the loved one's death. Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHyatt Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Future archaeologists will publish a paper about us stating: "These ancients burned their sick and dying alive, perhaps as a primitive cleansing ritual. In a bizarre twist, they kept the ashes of the deceased in jars or boxes as some sort of trophy." Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 In recorded history (past couple thousand years) people have done some odd burial procedures sometimes because they had a fear of the dead. Things like staking the dead down, hiding the head, etc. The most recent example of this is the "living dead" fear of the 19th century in which people would dig up the dead to see if they showed any signs of life, and "kill" them again if it was true. Sometimes the burial ritual was a punishment. And in the 19th century many burials were equipped with safety equipment to allow the buried person to ring a bell or other methods to alert people that they were still alive. There was a big scare in the 19th century of being buried alive. Death has always been very mysterious to people so they do odd things. These modern odd things have explanations, because it happen during the time of recorded history, but in the archeological sites of prehistory, we have no explains for these odd things. Cannibalism is extremely rare, but doing odd things is the norm. The neanderthals were very much like us. Their brains were slightly larger, and they most likely lived, loved, and dreamed just like we do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgehiker Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Cannibalism was practiced among some native American groups. My father used to tell of his grandmother warning them to never approach Inuit ( eskimos) even if starving. The Inuit were considered evil ghost spirits and cannibals. Encounters between Dene and Inuit never went well. Dene considered it their duty to scourge the world of Inuit who were not considered humans. However, the hunting territories rarely overlapped except in a couple of southern Arctic Ocean locales. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHyatt Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Cannibalism was practiced among some native American groups. My father used to tell of his grandmother warning them to never approach Inuit ( eskimos) even if starving. The Inuit were considered evil ghost spirits and cannibals. Encounters between Dene and Inuit never went well. Dene considered it their duty to scourge the world of Inuit who were not considered humans. However, the hunting territories rarely overlapped except in a couple of southern Arctic Ocean locales. It would be fascinating if traditions like this sprang from "genetic memories" of encounters between Homo sapiens and Neanderthals. I read somewhere that myths about trolls, dwarves, ogres, etc. may have arisen this way. Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I used to live near here https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/jun/20/ice-age-cannibals-britain-earliest-settlers. while I do understand it could be ritualistic and people sacrificed, it maybe people died of natural causes of early medical intervention such as trepanning for epilepsy for example and cannibalised or a 'Lord of the Flies' situation. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I'm suspicious of claims of cannibalism because in historical documents it is commonly claimed that other people are cannibals, but often it is not true and is just a smear against those people or fear of them. People are excited and fascinated by the concept of cannibalism, but it is extremely rare. This means that there is a bias towards claiming cannibalism, even in scientific papers. Only the accusations are common, the practice is not. It reminds me of the witch hunts of the late medieval period. People get cranked up by certain ideas and want to believe, even when the evidence is meager. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man-Eating_Myth To teach children a fear of strangers, it is common for parents to tell children that they might be taken by the boogy man and eaten. It is prevalent in almost all cultures. It sells books and movies, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 wonder if it was there own dead, or the dead of there rivals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manticocerasman Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 (edited) I never noticed this before here in Belgium , we are quite happy now with beef stew with beer. Edited August 16, 2016 by Kevin H. growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHyatt Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I never noticed this before here in Belgium , we are quite happy now with beef stew with beer. Are you *sure* it's beef? :-P Info: Craig Hyatt, retired software/electrical engineer Experience: Beginner, fossil hunting less than a year Location: Eagle Pass, TX USA on the border with Mexico, hot dry desert Formation: Escondido, Marine, Upper Cretaceous Materials: Sandstone, Mudstone, Shale, Chert, Chalk Typical: Thalassinoides, Sphenodiscus, Exogyra, Inoceramus Reference: http://txfossils.com/Txfossils.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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