Can somebody ID this fish ?

[belemniten]

I want to ask for ID for this fish:

I found it last saturday in Holzmaden ....

The fish i worn, but my first whole fish and quite rare in Holzmaden so I am happy with this find.
I dont know anything about fishes so please help me with the specimen.

Size: about 7 cm

Edited July 26, 2016 by belemniten

[Guguita2104]

Fantastic !

IMO, you have a bony fish (Osteichthyes class).

Look forward to see more of your finds !

Regards,

[Anchiornis]

I think it needs some more prepping, but judging from how the only visible dorsal fin on the fish is near its tail, I'd say Lepidotes?

(image source: fossilien.de)

Edited July 26, 2016 by Anchiornis

[Fossildude19]

I think it needs some more prepping, but judging from how the only visible dorsal fin on the fish is near its tail, I'd say Lepidotes?

I don't think it's a Lepidotes sp. , due to the fact there are no scales whatsoever really, on Belemniten's fish.

Lepidotes was heavily scaled, with thick ganoid scales, that fossilize very well. I see no evidence of that here.

This is some other bony fish.

I don't have any references here at the moment, but when I get home I will try to look up what other species are known from the area.

Regards,

[belemniten]

Fantastic !

IMO, you have a bony fish (Osteichthyes class).

Look forward to see more of your finds !

Regards,

Thanks I didnt find much on this day ....

Beside the fish only this tooth:

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/43295-steneosaurus-tooth/

I think it needs some more prepping, but judging from how the only visible dorsal fin on the fish is near its tail, I'd say Lepidotes?

Thanks for help ..... The fins looks really very similar. ....

I don't think it's a Lepidotes sp. , due to the fact there are no scales whatsoever really, on Belemniten's fish.

Lepidotes was heavily scaled, with thick ganoid scales, that fossilize very well. I see no evidence of that here.

This is some other bony fish.

I don't have any references here at the moment, but when I get home I will try to look up what other species are known from the area.

Regards,

I hoped that you answer

And thanks for the work to search after the name ...

I look forward to know wich specimen this is ....

[doushantuo]

absence of scales might point to it being juvenile

[CraigHyatt]

absence of scales might point to it being juvenile

Not necessarily. It might be a teenager who is just old enough to shave.

[PFOOLEY]

Nice fish. You may want to scroll through oilshale's gallery. Good luck.

[dsalles]

I would guess Leptolepis bronni. Not the best picture, but nevertheless: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/19486-more-show-us-your-fish/?hl=%2Bleptolepis+%2Bbronni#entry215858

Daniel

Edited July 26, 2016 by dsalles

[JohnBrewer]

Nice fish and tooth. So you didn't find any Dactylioceras commune?

[belemniten]

absence of scales might point to it being juvenile

Not necessarily. It might be a teenager who is just old enough to shave.

Thanks guys .... interesting what information such a little fish give

Nice fish. You may want to scroll through oilshale's gallery. Good luck.

Thanks Pfooley ! I see his gallery already ... absolutly amazing !!

I would guess Leptolepis bronni. Not the best picture, but nevertheless: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/19486-more-show-us-your-fish/?hl=%2Bleptolepis+%2Bbronni#entry215858

Daniel

I dont know .... maybe it looks a bit similar.

I think we have to wait for Tim

Nice fish and tooth. So you didn't find any Dactylioceras commune?

Thanks John !

There were a lot of ammonites but not that nice ones to collect them (i dont look excpecially for them) ...

Edited July 26, 2016 by belemniten

[Fossildude19]

Leptolepis sp. is a very good possibility.

I will have a look at my books this evening when I get home, and see which species have been found at Holzmaden.

Regards,

[dsalles]

Leptolepis bronni Agassiz, 1833 and Leptolepis coryphaenoides Bronn, 1830 are synonyms. L. coryphaenoides should have priority. L. coryphaenoides is a rather common fish in the Early Toarcian (Posidonia Shale of Holzmaden).

[doushantuo]

Ebertichthys and Ascalabos might be possibilities too

[dsalles]

Don't think so - Ascalabos voithi and Ebertichthys ettlingensis are both from the Upper Jurassic of Solnhofen, not from Holzmaden. But Paraleptolepis or Longileptolepis might be a possibility http://www.foss-rec.net/6/157/2003/fr-6-157-2003.pdf

Edited July 26, 2016 by dsalles

[doushantuo]

It's a sad day when I can't tell Tithonian from Toarcian.

[Fossildude19]

Having looked at my resources, I agree with Dsalles that Leptolepis coryphaenoides is the best ID for this fish.

Well done, Pfooley and

Nice fish. You may want to scroll through oilshale's gallery. Good luck.

Dsalles!

Leptolepis bronni Agassiz, 1833 and Leptolepis coryphaenoides Bronn, 1830 are synonyms. L. coryphaenoides should have priority. L. coryphaenoides is a rather common fish in the Early Toarcian (Posidonia Shale of Holzmaden).

Regards,

[Lori LuvsFossils]

I can't help, but CONGRATS! I would be thrilled to find that!

[belemniten]

Thanks all ...

Excpecially them who help to identify the find !

Interesting specimen ... somebody know how rare this is in Holzmaden ?

[dsalles]

Vertebrates are always rare in Holzmaden, but Leptolepis is the most common vertebrate in the "Unterer Stein":

"Unterer Stein. - Eine 20-25 cm mächtige Kalkbank mit ausgeprägter Lamination (Typ C) und muschelig-splittrigem Bruch. Weitere Charakteristika sind das Vorkommen von gut erhaltenen Leptolepis coryphaenoides Agassiz, synsedimentäre bis frühdiagenetische Wickelfaltungs-Strukturen, Rollspuren von Fischwirbeln und Lagen mit Girvanella sp. In den südlichsten Profilen ist der Untere Stein schwach bioturbiert (Chondrites sp. und unbestimmbare, mit Echinodermentrümmern, Knochenresten und Phosphoritknöllchen verfüllte Gänge). Im Posidonienschiefer des Kanton Jura (Mt. Terri) ist der Untere Stein genau in derselben petrographischen Ausbildung zu finden, aber doppelt so mächtig (50 cm). Der Untere Stein ist ein wichtiger Leithorizont Süddeutschlands (Riegraf et al. 1984; Riegraf 1985). Ähnliche, zeitgleiche Leithorizonte sind auch aus Elsass-Lothringen (Schirardin 1914), S-Frankreich (Riegraf 1980) und England (Howarth 1962) beschrieben. S.120"

See also http://www.waldenfont.com/fossils/defaultNS.asp Click on "Holzmaden" and look for Leptolepis:

"This little guy is the most common fish in the Poseidon shales. Leptolepis can be found in virtually all layers, but most commonly in the upper Tafelfleins. Unfortunately, the Tafelfleins is rarely cut into, because it lies more than a meter below the commercially mined Fleins and has no economic value. It doesn't split very well, and the surface is an unattractive, ashen color.

The Leptolepis form a spread-out mortality community in that layer, much like the Fischliflinz in Solnhofen. In addition, the Tafelfleins contains a relatively large number of small squid with soft tissue preservation.

Don't turn down an opportunity to split some if you find that a new drainage pool has been dug in a quarry!"

Daniel

Edited July 27, 2016 by dsalles

[abyssunder]

Just to add : A new teleost (Osteichthyes, Actinopterygii)from the Early JurassicPosidoizia shale of Northern Germany - Gloria Arratia & Detlev Thies http://www.foss-rec.net/4/167/2001/fr-4-167-2001.pdf

" A new teleostean genus and species, Paraleptolepis wiedenrothi, is described from the Lower Liassic of Germany. The fish has an overall similarity with Lepfolepis coryphaenoides (from different Lower Liassic European localities) but differs from L. coryphaenoides in the presence of a few autapomorphics and also in the retention of several primitive features not present in L. coryphaenoides. Examples of autapomorphic characters are: two moderately large suborbital bones; preopercle trinngular and with a notch at its posterior margin; large cleithrum with pronounced curvature anteriorly: pelvic axillary process formed by one small elongate bone; and long neural spines on preural centrum 1 and the ural centrum 1 + 2. Paraleptolepis n. gen. is more closely related to Leptolepis and extant teleosts than it is to Proleptolepis (from Lower Liassic localities). The new evidence supports the previous hypothesis that the family Leptolepididae sensu Nybelin is non-monophyletic. Several Characters (e.g., concerning structure of vertebrae) that previously were accepted to have arisen at the phylogenetic level of Leptolepis coryphaenoides are found also to occur in Paraleptolepis n. gen. "

[doushantuo]

the species was renamed by Arratia in 2003,Abyss

[belemniten]

Thanks very much Daniel ....

Interesting link and site

Maybe i can find another specie ....

Thanks abyssunder and doushantuo .... Amazin what you know

I think i need more professional books to ID my finds better ....

[doushantuo]

Not necessarily.

There's quite a lot of fossil fish literature online,if you know where to look.

Edited July 27, 2016 by doushantuo

[belemniten]

Not necessarily.

There's quite a lot of fossil fish literature online,if you know where to look.

Oh ok thanks ...

Can you give me some good sites ?