Fossilgrove Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Saw this auction for a Suchomimus tooth. Thanks to Andy for bringing it to my attention.Its described as : Cretaceous (113 to 121 million y old) - Niger, AfricaImpressive fossil tooth core of the Suchomimus tenerensis. The tooth measures 13 cm in the length and is therefore even longer when measured along the curve. The tooth was restored with the original material after a break at the tip. Suchomimus tenerensis is a carnivorous theropod dinosaur, belonging to the group of spinosauridae who lived during the early Cretaceous in Africa. Suchomimus was almost ten meters long and weighed three tons. It had a long crocodile-like head with which it could catch fish. The large brown tooth is the face the light coloured tooth with textured crown is the genuine tooth Its a fake that has been reconstructed This tooth is NOT a Suchomimus tenerensis..its a fabrication,Suchomimus teeth are laterally compressed and have a textured crown,,this is not from this dinosaur ,its junk worth nothing.I am attaching a photo of a genuine tooth from this dinosaur .these teeth did not grow large,they were gracile as well and maximum crown size is 3 inches,,the claws were the primary weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Thanks to Troodon/Frank for his input on this fake too. This is the first fake from Niger I've ever seen, let's hope they don't start flooding the market. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Thanks for the incite George, good info. Couple of points when looking at a listing that are clues that things may not be what they say. The estimated value was listed at $170-290. Rare large teeth command big money so what does one listed so low tell you. The title and description identified it has a tooth CORE. Terminology that is never used in selling teeth. Another is that the description says the tooth was restored in original material. Odd statement to make if real This is a good case of asking before you bid on something. When it looks too good to be true it's usually not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Please do not list dealer or auction site names in these topics. All should keep in mind that these topics are to help members identify characteristics that separate real fossils from other things. The sellers are not the focus. Thanks. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossilgrove Posted July 29, 2016 Author Share Posted July 29, 2016 Thanks for the incite George, good info. Couple of points when looking at a listing that are clues that things may not be what they say. The estimated value was listed at $170-290. Rare large teeth command big money so what does one listed so low tell you. The title and description identified it has a tooth CORE. Terminology that is never used in selling teeth. Another is that the description says the tooth was restored in original material. Odd statement to make if real This is a good case of asking before you bid on something. When it looks too good to be true it's usually not these are actually made of plaster and weighed with a metal strip to give them some weight,,total fakes,,these were been sold on Ebay a few years ago as well. I bought a tooth and smashed it up to prove it was a fake and he never put up one for sale again,,seems he is back in business..he had hundreds of these made by a woman who was an artist..complete junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Wow, nothing like first hand experience. Sad what some do for money. Question does the current owner think it's real or aware of the deception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelte Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Hello people, Thanks for the thoughts on this item. A bit ashamed to admit, but I am the owner/seller of this item. I put it up for auction, because I believed it to be a real fossil tooth from a Suchomimus tenerensis. I reply to this threat because I do not want to sell fakes and/or have people think that I scam buyers. I sold this fossil from a seller about a year ago. He told me that he had purchased it from a dealer in Niger and that it was authentic. I put it up on the Dutch version of the fossilforum (www.fossiel.net) and it was not identified as fake or as something else than a suchomimus tooth, so I believed this all to be ok. In the replies above Troodon mentions some points that should be clues to show that my original lot is not to be trusted. I think he should be a bit more careful with these statements. It is worth mentioning that Catawiki uses a translate service; my original lot was in Dutch and it has been translated (partly automatically) by Catawiki. My English is not perfect and that is why I rely on Catawiki to translate it in the right way. Second point from Troodon about the estimate: Catawiki decides this based on the estimate that the seller makes. I didn't know the worth of this tooth, so I put up an estimate about the amount that I payed for this tooth. The estimate is indeed not very accurate in these auctions. Third point about the tooth being repared with the original material: I wrote this because I wanted to make clear that, after the tooth breaking, no other material has been used to restore the teeth than the parts that came off. I saw the tooth when it was in parts and there definitely is no metal strip inside, as Fossilgrove suggested, and the material that came of is not plaster. I am curious to hear what you think this is, if it is not a suchomimus tooth. If anybody would like to inspect it, I am willing to send it over to you to straighten this all out. Once again, I put this item up for auction because I thought it to be real. I am sorry if I have misled people, that is never my intention. Kind regards, Jelte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Good to hear that it was just an honest mistake. I've purchased fossils at auctions on catawiki many times. It can be a great place to get fossils for a decent price sometimes. But I also see incorrect labeling and enhanced fossils on there very regularly. This highlights the importance of doing some research before purchasing any fossil really. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Yes glad to see its an honest mistake. Unfortunately we see a lot of misidentified dinosaur teeth on auction sites and have to go with the photos and information provided to make a decision is it correct or not. It is all we have. Part of that decision making is to look for clues that tell us its not as described by the seller. We have to look at everything to make that call including price. That auction has many mislabeled items on it and we the buyers need to assume it may not be correctly labled. Many times the seller, like yourself, is unaware that what he purchased was not correct but sad to say there are other sellers that know exactly what they have and are trying to deceive. I do not know what you have, it's not dinosaurian. If it's real may be marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I second what Troodon and LordTrilobite have said, I am glad it was an honest mistake. I have no idea what it is either. Hopefully this thread stays up and someone can shed some light on this. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 46 minutes ago, Troodon said: it's not dinosaurian. If it's real may be marine. It's hard to tell from just one photo ofc. But it seems similar to Plesiosaur teeth. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Agreed it has similarities to plesiosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelte Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Thank you all for your replies. Of course you are right that the text and photo's are all you have at an auction. I have included some other pictures so you can judge if it truly is plesiosaur, something else, or a fake after all! Thanks for keeping me sharp! (scale is in centimeters ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Good pictures. +13 cm is much too big for a plesiosaur but I'm questioning if it's real from what I see. The surface does not look like enamel. Is it light or heavy? If you tap it does it resonate or give you a dull sound. From the base picture and uneveness of the crown surface looks possibly fabricated. I do not see a refined crown wall at the base. Let's see what others say, always difficult to diagnose something with photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelte Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 It is not very heavy but about the same weight as a rock of the same size. It sounds the same as the mammoth / woolly rhino fossils that I have in my collection. Does that help with identifying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 No, but it may help LordTrilobite since he has similiar fossils. You indicated that you repaired the tooth. Where did it break and what was the color and texture of the broken parts. Enamel would fracture in small pieces with sharp edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelte Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 It broke at the three points shown in the picture below. The outside of the fossil did break in some sharp small pieces. The inside looked like the 'bottom' end of the tooth. Thanks again for all your kind help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Sorry but I don't have a good feel about the tooth. The end is not typical of the tooth and if break areas looked like the end that does not help. Like I said would like to hear from others @Fossilgrove @LordTrilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Yes I have a lot of rhino and mammoth fossils. Those are generally really heavy for their size. I have two Zarafasaura teeth from Morocco. One is roughly round in shape and the other is fairly flattened towards the tip. The shape looks right for a Plesiosaur. The surface of this piece looks very fake though. It's definitely been tampered with. What I'm interested in is if there's an actual real tooth in there. Do you have any photos of the surface where it broke? Seeing part of the inside would definitely help to find out if there's any real parts to this. Otherwise I don't see us figuring this one out. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I've never seen any at 13 cm. but my knowledge is very limited here, the shape is right. I don't like the way the end looks or the surface. Don't see enamel. If the tooth was glued back together can we use a solvent to separate the former broken piece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelte Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Thank you guys. I will go try and see if I can break / disconnect the pieces from the fossil again at the largest point and then make som pictures of it. What would be the best course of action for this? What kind of solvent to solve the glue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Depends what was used to bond it. Most Cyanoacrylates respond to acetone. If the surface was tampered with it will also remove any painted surfaces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 I don't know much about teeth but the surface doesn't look like enamel to me, well it's certainly nothing like any of the teeth in my collection, marine reptile or dinosaurian. I wonder rather than being a fake tooth if it's possible it could be a horn or tusk or some other tooth like thing? Not that I know anything about these at all. Just thinking aloud really. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelte Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Yes, also a possibilty I think. The auctioneer from catawiki suggested a claw instead of a tooth... Anyway, the parts disconnected quite well with a bit of trying. Here are the pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Great photos! I think it's pretty safe to say this is really, really fake. Basically just a sculpture I'd say. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.