Need a little help

[Stingray]

Collected this near Rosendale NY. Need some help with identification thanks....

[Stingray]

one more

[CraigHyatt]

Rudist? Wait for experts.

[Stingray]

Sorry size

[CraigHyatt]

Sorry size

Wow! That penny made all the difference. Now I've got no idea. ;-)

Think it could be some kind of larva, chrysalis, cocoon, or insect egg case?

Somebody here will know.

Is any of the back of the thing visible at either end or is it buried in the matrix?

If there's any visible, maybe a couple shots from the back?

Maybe even end and side views would help ID.

Edited August 5, 2016 by CraigHyatt

[Stingray]

yes that's my problem the size and the segments here is an end shot

[CraigHyatt]

Ah. So it's cylindrical. Not to be picky, but can you get better focus on the end shot?

Does it look like a spiral or more like a stack of discs at the end?

Does it have little radial pointy decorations like a sort of crown on the end? Looks like it, but hard to see.

Edited August 5, 2016 by CraigHyatt

[Jeffrey P]

At first I thought crinoid, but the way it tapers towards the top, I'm now thinking nautiloid. If it's from the Rosendale area it is probably Silurian (Rondout Formation) whose fauna , unfortunately I'm not that familiar with. Whatever it is, congratulations on a very cool find.

[Guguita2104]

Hi!

Unless it was brought by any natural process (such as glacial action), it can't be a rudist, because those bivalves only lived during the Malm (Upper Jurassic) and Cretaceous.

Regards,

[Stingray]

Best I could do

[CraigHyatt]

I'm with you, Sting... the fine segments and tiny size are problematic. Could it be a cast of a feeding trace or burrow? It just seems awfully tiny to be a shell.

[Stingray]

I'm leaning towards straight shelled Nautiloid. Although I'm not an expert I'm pretty sure the strata of that particular layer was Ordovician

Edited August 5, 2016 by Stingray

[abyssunder]

Interesting form. No rudist, I'm affraid. Looks very old in geological terms. I suppose , in my thought , that it looks close to stromatoporoids.

[DPS Ammonite]

Craig may be on to something, I see radial lines on the interior of the disks and zigzag separations between the disks which may mean that these are a stack of really thin crinoid columns. Stingray or others, does anyone see a round center in the fuzzy end shot of the column that may be the filled in center of the crinoid column?

Alternatively, does anyone know of a Nautiloid with small chambers and zigzag septa?

Edited August 5, 2016 by DPS Ammonite

[Stingray]

OK this is the best I can do on an end shot ...............

[DPS Ammonite]

Stingray, do the disks look like phono records/Necco wafers or do they look angled like the Elizabethan collars that the veterinarian put around the neck of dogs and cats to prevent them from scratching. You should be able to tell from the end on photo.

[CraigHyatt]

OK this is the best I can do on an end shot ...............

Maybe just a verbal description. Does the tip end look like a spiral or whorl? Or does it just look like a stack of disks?

[Stingray]

OK so towards each end they appear to be cone shaped but its not round like a Crinoid and I have seen many its almost mummy like in appearance. Unlike the picture below its not cylindrical

Edited August 5, 2016 by Stingray

[Stingray]

Here is a side view of it

[CraigHyatt]

So it kind of comes to a point on *both* ends? Do I understand correctly? Are the two ends very similar? I mean is it like a sort of elongated American football?

[piranha]

This paper has a few cephalopods that are similar, from the NY Ordovician of neighboring Dutchess County and nearby Washington County.

 

 

Kröger, B., & Landing, E. (2008)

Onset of the Ordovician cephalopod radiation-evidence from the Rochdale Formation (middle Early Ordovician, Stairsian) in eastern New York.

Geological Magazine, 145(4):490-520

PDF LINK

 

 

 

 

[DPS Ammonite]

Thanks piranha for the paper. Since the "disks" are conic or concave and not like a disk they are not a crinoid column and are probably nautiloids that look like several of the ones in the paper with very thin chambers in the long direction of the shell.

[andyrice11]

Sorry size

From this picture the part on top that comes to an angle makes me think that this might be part of a conulariid. Perhaps it got a little smashed and distorted over time

[TqB]

Notwithstanding the convex/conical stacked plates, I think it looks like a crinoid. As far as I know, you don't get the radial ridged ornament on cephalopod chamber walls whereas these are typical columnal articulation surfaces.

There are crinoid holdfast areas that consist of stacked cones so the geometry is possible, crinoid columals come in all sorts of shapes other than simple discs.

Edited August 5, 2016 by TqB

[Stingray]

Somewhere some professor could look at this and in two seconds make an identification.. I find it more fun this way, as for overall shape why would it have a convex/ conical shape on both ends..This is a problem for indentifing wouldn't one end be open?