Some type of plant fossil

[MKluj]

Found in shallow-water delta top sandstone of the Lackagh sandstone formation in Ireland. Sandstone in this place overlies arnsbergian regional stage formation of namurian stage. Stump imprints usually surrounded by quartz and quartzite pebbles which suggests flooding. Can you help me identify the plant/ plants?

[MKluj]

Any ideas?

[JohnBrewer]

I'm thinking geological or man made. Need to wait for others to chime in.

[MKluj]

Its not man made and definitely not geological feature. The only explanation is fossils, but of what?

[Rockwood]

Its not man made and definitely not geological feature. The only explanation is fossils, but of what?

Opinions are always welcome, but you probably shouldn't state them as facts without some solid evidence.

[tmaier]

Unfortunately, the coarse sand doesn't make fine fossil detail. It looks like the harder woody parts left voids in the sand that became filed in, so there isn't much detail to analyze.

The Lackagh Sandstone is Carboniferous, and is listed as a shallow fresh water environment.

Wild guesses...

Image #1 and 2 maybe tree trunk.

Image #3 I think is just a random pattern. Notice the other patterns in the background, and I think this one you chose just happens to have a suggestive pattern to it.

Image #4 certainly looks like something, but the photo is too blurry to make out details. Looks like wood.

Image #5 looks like there was something there, like cones that fell out or dissolved away, or what?

Image #6 looks like a void made by a tree trunk. It doesn't seem to have a recognizable impression in it, though. It is a blurry photo, but coarse sand and erosion probably left no diagnostic feature to determine what it was.

[Strepsodus]

Hi. I think they're all geological features, other than the 4th one which may be a worn plant fossil. The first two look like nodules. The 'bubbles' in the 5th photo are probably due to the high Iron content in the rocks. I think 6 and 7 were formed due to erosion.

Daniel

[CraigHyatt]

Hi. I think they're all geological features, other than the 4th one which may be a worn plant fossil. The first two look like nodules. The 'bubbles' in the 5th photo are probably due to the high Iron content in the rocks. I think 6 and 7 were formed due to erosion.

Daniel

+1

[MKluj]

Opinions are always welcome, but you probably shouldn't state them as facts without some solid evidence.

That's fantastic. Which evidence you want me to present?

[Rockwood]

That's fantastic. Which evidence you want me to present?

Anything that you think supports your assertion.

[westcoast]

Woody material has been recorded from the lackagh fm and some of your pics certainly look woody but not enough detail preserved to identify.

[erose]

#4 looks like fossil to me but not a great photo to work from. The round things are vague but I have seen stumps on the Devonian of New York State that were not unlike that. The long troughs look like bore holes before the rock was split. Any chance these are blocks in a quarry?

[supertramp]

Any chance these are blocks in a quarry?

If this is the case, they reminds me of the bore holes for the injection of expansive mortar

ciao

[Taogan]

Picture 4 looks fossil, the others look geological to me, but the pictures don't show enough detail

[CraigHyatt]

If the rocks were quarried, it's possible some of the feature details are fractures or eroded fractures. Fractures can have pseudo-biological patterns.

[fifbrindacier]

I agree with Tmaier and Erose. As evidence, could you post more detailed photos ?

[MKluj]

I'm sorry for late response. I was away for awhile.

Ok lets get to it:

Why not a geological features:

- Lackagh sandstone is not soluble (i check myself with acid just to be sure, it is not reacting) its 99% made of quartz,

- the features are randomly dispersed and they follow different directions, they also end to sharply for solution features,

- the elongated features are not cutting through bedding and also they are accruing parallel to it. Bedrock is still more or less horizontal,

- the Lackagh sandstone is fawn to white type of sandstone without high content of iron,

- Lackagh sandstone formation  contain thin beds of inconsistent coal beds that are not present in this location probably eroded during last glaciation.

- some of round features are mostly flat bottom and present something which looks like core again in the rock that doesn't contain a lot of iron.

 

Why not of an anthropogenic origin:

- no quarrying  involving heavy machinery was ever done in this area,

- they was a remote access to this area until last year, so the only human activity is probably prehistoric.

- none of prehistoric rock art in the area and around the world looks like that. Archaeologist ( and me as geologist and petroarchaeologist) agree those are not human origin.

Again they are to random and accidental.

 

Unfortunately quality of photos is poor because of weather condition and the fact that the features are not well preserve and they are in sandstone(which doesn't help). I will try to put some more photos but i don't think i will have chance to visit the area any time soon.

For those who agree with me even partially please suggest spices of plants that might be represented here even if its only hypothetically.

Look at photo number 5 is of weathered diagenetic concentrations which are eroded away, but what did they nucleate on? possibly bits of organic matter, leaves...

Thanks

MKluj

 

 

[MKluj]

The problem is that when I was photographing the area I thought of them as interesting geological patterns and features and only later I started to look at the with suspicion. I'm adding more photos that i dug out.

 

MKluj

[MKluj]

[MKluj]

Top view of the previous photo. Wholes are about 10 cm in diameter.

MKluj

[supertramp]

5 hours ago, MKluj said:

 

Any chance at least for these features to be isolated tafoni-like cavities, with the erosional process caused by a rock heterogeneity (such as pebbles, as you can see in the lower part of the two escarpments)?

ciao

Edited September 1, 2016 by supertramp

[Stingray]

I was thinking glacial chatter and possibly pebbles caught up in the rock from melt water at a later time. JMO 

[MKluj]

11 hours ago, Stingray said:

I was thinking glacial chatter and possibly pebbles caught up in the rock from melt water at a later time. JMO 

I'm not sure what are you referring to. White pebbles are part of Lackagh sandstone which is was deposited 320 million years ago. This canyon-like features are rifts that were form after last glaciation.

 

MKluj

[MKluj]

16 hours ago, supertramp said:

 

Any chance at least for these features to be isolated tafoni-like cavities, with the erosional process caused by a rock heterogeneity (such as pebbles, as you can see in the lower part of the two escarpments)?

ciao

Might be but they are to isolated features. They also would have to be form during last 12 to 10 thousand years since this is how long this side was exposed to the elements. The climate of this area was and is wet and mild.  The composition of the this parts of the rock was definitely different but why? Also the features are more like channels then round (it was hard to capture it on the photo). The maximum size of pebbles found in Lackagh sandstone is 3 cm and those features are 10 cm in diameter.

 

MKluj

[supertramp]

Just my thought MK,

but it seems those are not cylindrical channels…they rather look like shallow cavities (could you verify on the ground?), with no relation with the features on the top of the outcrop;

...tafoni can certainly be produced in such a “short time”, climate and bedrock;

 

…the first hole on the left has an elliptical rather than hemispherical shape, which makes it resemble the fusiform features on the second escarpment…where the cavities dimension greatly exceed the pebbles diameter;

 

ciao