Dinosaur or mammal?

[Paul N.L.]

Prometheonad - so I named this unusual animal.

Part of his jaw caught me on the river Oka in the Moscow region.

I think it could be kind of transition between dinosaurs and mammals.

This is indicated by the similarity of his teeth with the teeth of herbivorous dinosaurs.

On the other hand, any of the remaining three crowns of the teeth at the exit to the surface is divided into individual bits. Teeth 1 and 2 are divided into three, the smallest tooth 3 - two. However, they have common roots.

If these teeth to bring to the surface entirely and flatten slightly, then turn out the classic teeth of mammals, such as a bear or wild boar. Crowns inside is very similar to the analogs available in mammals.

The narrow opening of the jaw remained directed sideways. It probably was a fang.

In an attempt to determine this animal many paleontologists from different countries took part, but they could not find a solution.

I am sure there are many brave and intelligent people.

I propose to refute my hypothesis.

Who is it ?

[JohnJ]

Welcome to The Forum.  Some of our vertebrate experts should be along shortly.

@Harry Pristis

@jpc

@Boesse

@RichW9090

[Paul N.L.]

Thank you JohnJ !

[sagacious]

A rough count of the alveoli suggests it might be a section of pig/boar jaw, broken off a little anterior to premolar3 and terminating at/about molar2.

Edited August 31, 2016 by sagacious
edited for clarity

[Harry Pristis]

Quote

 

I don't know what animal this jaw represents.  It's a maxilla, I believe.  The molars are a mystery . . . The alveolae appear to be distorted, the bone may be pathological.  The molar in the crypt seems canted to one side, but that may be an artifact of the imaging.  I don't think it's a suid tooth, but don't have another guess.  The identification is as simple as removing this tooth from the jaw, or exposing much more of it.

[Raggedy Man]

Sorry, but I'm no bone guy. I just wanted to say whatever it is, it's KLASSNO!

 

Best regards,

Paul

[Paul N.L.]

Thank sagacious, Harry Pristis and Raggedy Man (Spasibo) !

The tooth does not want to retrieve ...

I think that it is not Suidae. It is not clear.

Soon I will add new photos.

[Paul N.L.]

New photos.

There are small stones stuck in the jaw when the animal's life.

Incorrect example, but teeth like Orthocanthus - one root of the tooth and a few peaks.

[sixgill pete]

While I cannot help in any way in the attempt to I.D. this; I want to say that your pictures are exceptional. The focus and exceptional quality are what is needed, and often lacking with images put up for I.D. help. Kudos to you Paul and I hope you get your I.D. solved.

 

B.T.W. welcome to the forum.

[jpc]

This is a very strange fossil.  Not a suid.  The tooth looks more reptilian, dinosaurian, but the jaw structure is weird.  You should show it to the folks at the big paleontology museum there in Moscow.  

[JohnBrewer]

That's a great find whatever it is and has been said your photography is superb. 

 

Your scale of a British 1/2 penny might even confuse some British people though, they were taken out of circulation in the mid 1980's  

[Paul N.L.]

Thank sixgill pete, jpc and JohnBrewer !

I was introduced to this discovery of several specialists of the Institute of Paleontology in Moscow, which owns the museum of paleontology. They also do not know. The British Association of dinosaurs is also not known.

As a teenager, I was fond of philately and numismatics, but to find and identify something new yourself - it's fun and sports.

I will bring this matter to a conclusion. Be sure to write here, what will happen to Prometheonad. He has the right to life.

Photo below specifically for JohnBrewer

 

Thank you all !

This is the best forum for paleontology and there are very nice people.

[LordTrilobite]

What about an early whale? Those are known for having teeth that look like those of reptiles.

[Paul N.L.]

Thank LordTrilobite. An interesting variant. It seems that the jaw was broad, but short. It is unclear assignment of the side holes in the narrow part, which could be canine. The shape of holes and their location, in my opinion, closer to land animals. I have not found counterparts.

[jpc]

I love your use of coins....

[Twinlukers]

Very nice piece!! I was watching a documentary on the monasaurous and how they became and I can't remember the name of the reptile before it evolved into the monasaurous. But the long jaw bone shows similar signs of it. 

I watched the documentary on YouTube called deep beasts. Just type in monasaurous and you'll see. It's about a half hour video..

 

nice find.

[Paul N.L.]

Thank jpc !

In the old days were very nice coin.

Thank Twinlukers !

Here, in my opinion, chewing teeth, which did not have mosasaurs and their ancestors. These teeth are too weak for the predator. This herbivore teeth. They retain signs of crowns of teeth of herbivorous dinosaurs, but the shape of the crowns and their arrangement in the jaw similar to mammals.

[Paul N.L.]

Twinlukers, I watched a few movies.

After studying a lot of material, I believe that a reptile teeth grew on one line, as the planted trees. All teeth were about the same, and each tooth had its root. If a tooth had a few peaks, they have always been on the surface completely. This is a more primitive form of the tooth, in my opinion.

This is not so. They are different in size and shape. On the surface there are only peaks.

Thank you! Interesting Films.

Further in continuation of the theme.

If then there was an accident, it could be related to the cosmic radiation.

This radiation is operated briefly (for example, the explosion of a nearby star).

Period of possible mutations based on the exchange of genetic material could be very short. Therefore, the transient species remained little artifacts.

On chewing surfaces of opposing teeth traces stuck stones and prints, in my opinion, stems bush-type plants. Probably, it was the growth of the animal, as a large dog.

These crowns of the teeth are similar to those that might precede the crowns of the teeth known large animals. It is mathematically logical. Sherlock Holmes would have thought so.

I adhere to the theory of Charles Darwin, and I think that life is very flexible and adaptable.

At the heart of organic life are the same type of the same processes. And dinosaurs and mammals.

Some herbivorous dinosaurs could mutate and transform. Even just giving their genetic material in some small mammals in high-radiation.

If in the end it turned out viable offspring, then this transformation happened very quickly and could lay the foundation for further long-term reforms, which led to a certain diversity of our animals in the Cenozoic. Very similar animals and at the same time different from each other.

[Paul N.L.]

Area searches became less. I have been in the Paleontological Institute in Moscow (the eponymous museum belongs to the institution). Preliminary information. This is the top left row of teeth. Theoretically, the length of the jaw twice. The wide groove on the one hand - this is the beginning of the palate. It is located in the oral cavity.

Mammal for Amphicyonidae line. This is a very distant ancestor bears and dogs. Not only them.

Analogues are not yet known and it suggests that the new species is found.

Teeth remain a mystery. X-ray and 3d-models will be made.

New photos will publish in the near future.

Interestingly opinion experts on Amphicyonidae family. Maybe someone has seen similar?