Some odd finds from the "Hungry Hollow"

[Phevo]

Hello

 

I went on a trip to Hungry Hollow this summer and found some fossils I am uncertain of. 

 

Except for the piece of fish bone they were all found in the south pit and are pyratised. 

 

1: Is a piece of a fish? -27mm in length

 

2: I think this might be a starfish arm? It measures 14mm in length.

 

3: Fish earbone? Never seen anything like it -10mm in length

 

4: I really have no idea.. -12mm in length

 

If anyone could confirm or come up with some ideas for the ID's I would appreciate it

 

Phevo

[Monica]

Hi Phevo!

 

I don't know much about vertebrate fossils (since in my area I only ever find invertebrates), but your fourth and fifth pictures (the small black piece with a bumpy texture) looks like it could be a fish mouth plate/fish pharyngeal teeth.  However, I'm far from certain - we should wait for the experts to chime in...

 

Monica

[Fossildude19]

Hello!

Looks like some good finds! 

 

Your first item is definitely placoderm armor - the stellate pustules are classic placoderm. 

 

 

 

Your second item appears to be some disarticulated bits of some crinoid, or some other echinoderm ... most likely crinoid, but could be cystoid or starfish.

 

             

 

 

Your third item looks geologic to me, as does the fourth. No fish mouth plates in the Devonian, as far as I am aware.

 

 

                          

 

Thanks for showing us - that Placoderm armor is fantastic.

Regards,

 

 

 

[Kane]

I would say the second item is likely disarticulated crinoid calyx. The third item with the "goosebumps" may also be crinoidal in origin. 

[Phevo]

Thanks for the response, I am sorry about the quality of the pictures, I'm having issues taking good macros on my camera for some reason.. 

 

The echinoid/crinoid/starfish has a slight arch towards the tip witch is why I thought it might be a starfish bit, the crinoid parts I found over there are all straight.

 

That last item is actually curving quite a bit.

 

I took a few more pictures that might cast a better light on the specimens

 

Where does Placoderm armour sit on a fish? I havent actually seen any before  

 

 

 

[Kane]

I've found a few of these there before, and I was fairly excited with the prospect that it was placo-plate. Alas, the curvature can be explained as the plated part of the crinoid calyx (otherwise called the "theca").  I do hold out hope that maybe the starfish piece is a bona fide starfish piece!

[Phevo]

25 minutes ago, Kane said:

I've found a few of these there before, and I was fairly excited with the prospect that it was placo-plate. Alas, the curvature can be explained as the plated part of the crinoid calyx (otherwise called the "theca").  I do hold out hope that maybe the starfish piece is a bona fide starfish piece!

 

That is fine by me, I found a few "normal" calyx heads and one with a gastropod on top of it, but this is the only pyratised one

 

Would that round bit by the bottom be where the stem was attached? 

 

I found a few pictures, and one of them resembles the wavy piece, just not pyratised.

 

Phevo

 

 

 

 

 

[fossiling]

1 hour ago, Phevo said:

Thanks for the response, I am sorry about the quality of the pictures, I'm having issues taking good macros on my camera for some reason.. 

 

The echinoid/crinoid/starfish has a slight arch towards the tip witch is why I thought it might be a starfish bit, the crinoid parts I found over there are all straight.

 

That last item is actually curving quite a bit.

 

I took a few more pictures that might cast a better light on the specimens

 

Where does Placoderm armour sit on a fish? I havent actually seen any before  

 

 

 

placoderm armour sits on the head of the fish,if i haven't remembered it wrongly.

[Fossildude19]

Devonian Placoderm Fossils 

[Phevo]

 

31 minutes ago, fossiling said:

placoderm armour sits on the head of the fish,if i haven't remembered it wrongly.

 

28 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Devonian Placoderm Fossils 

 

This has to be part of the most bad*** fish I have ever found  

 

 

 

[Fossildude19]

They are cool. 

Yours is probably from something similar to Bothriolepis sp.

More Info

I'd be psyched by a find like that.

Doesn't get much cooler than a piece of Devonian fish.  

"Cept maybe a COMPLETE Devonian fish.

[Kane]

Yes, it would be the rounded, almost "cup-like" bit on the crinoid. It is good you found them when you did - as they weather out of the Arkona, they can denature quite quickly when left to the elements. The pyritization is just about the last step toward vanishing forever, and like autumn leaves, they are a colourful marvel to behold

 

EDIT: and as I typed this, I just realized today is the first day of autumn

 

[Phevo]

36 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

They are cool. 

Yours is probably from something similar to Bothriolepis sp.

More Info

I'd be psyched by a find like that.

Doesn't get much cooler than a piece of Devonian fish.  

"Cept maybe a COMPLETE Devonian fish.

 

I was pretty perplexed about it at the time, but must say finding out it is from a bony fish is pretty neat, the only problem is the strata around me is 71-65 myo so I will have an impossible task ahead of me locating anymore in the near future

39 minutes ago, Kane said:

Yes, it would be the rounded, almost "cup-like" bit on the crinoid. It is good you found them when you did - as they weather out of the Arkona, they can denature quite quickly when left to the elements. The pyritization is just about the last step toward vanishing forever, and like autumn leaves, they are a colourful marvel to behold

 

EDIT: and as I typed this, I just realized today is the first day of autumn

 

 

I found them the day after a thunderstorm left 20 mm or so rain so I got them nice n fresh

 

They were nice and bright when I first found them but faded after travelling for 4 weeks, then I gave them a treatment of WD-40 and they regained alittle of there luster.. 

 

Is there any other way you can treat pyritized specimens so they don't deteriorate? 

[Kane]

Well, the first thing is to ensure that they don't get wet, and that includes just general moisture from the air. There are a lot of remedies for "pyrite rot" (including here on this forum!). Just know that you can delay the rot, but never really stop it. Storing it in anoxic conditions, such as a sealed vacuumed container, can increase the longevity of pyritized specimens. Adding some sort of dessicant may also be an option (silica beads, for example, the sort you might find in little packets in various pills/medications to keep them moisture-free). 

[Kane]

1 hour ago, Phevo said:

 

 

 

I found them the day after a thunderstorm left 20 mm or so rain so I got them nice n fresh

 

 

We must have just missed each other! We were there not long after that heavy rain, but were on the north side, upriver. I found the very middle of the pit (garlanded by the tall, swampy reeds) was the best place to find pyritized crinoid columnals, while along the bottom edge of the Arkona bank/hump was perfect for collecting Bactrites and Goniatites. As you proceed west along that hump, there are some broken up bits of shell pavement that make lovely hash plate display pieces.

 

[doushantuo]

Bothriolepis,large sample size:

 

luksbothrig2001n4a2.pdf

[Guest11596]

1 - Placoderm (fish)

2 - fairly certain those are disarticulated starfish ossicles

3 - ?

4 - looks like a radial plate from an Arthroacantha (crinoid)

[Phevo]

21 hours ago, Kane said:

We must have just missed each other! We were there not long after that heavy rain, but were on the north side, upriver. I found the very middle of the pit (garlanded by the tall, swampy reeds) was the best place to find pyritized crinoid columnals, while along the bottom edge of the Arkona bank/hump was perfect for collecting Bactrites and Goniatites. As you proceed west along that hump, there are some broken up bits of shell pavement that make lovely hash plate display pieces.

 

 

That is very possible, I was in the northern pit from 8-10 or so and in the southern pit from 10-13:00 before I had to go. 

 

I did bring some shell pavement with me, full of brachipods and crinoid tips, but I have kept 2 pieces and given the rest away as alot of people liked them. 

 

The bactrites and Goniatites are really neat, I also found 3 or 4 different type of pyratized clams in that area. 

 

18 hours ago, middevonian said:

1 - Placoderm (fish)

2 - fairly certain those are disarticulated starfish ossicles

3 - ?

4 - looks like a radial plate from an Arthroacantha (crinoid)

 

Thank you having a look

 

21 hours ago, doushantuo said:

Bothriolepis,large sample size:

 

luksbothrig2001n4a2.pdf

 

I still wonder where the piece I found would have fit in to one of those, very interresting fish

[Kane]

Rather than start a new thread, I may as well pick up on an old one (as though it is only one trip simply broken up by time). 

 

Yesterday was a good day to make the trip to the Hollow - temperatures were good, although some of the areas were a bit mucky from the rain we've been having lately. While Deb was working the upper Widder, I busied myself with the encrinal layer of the Arkona Mbr. Part of my goal was to fill the buckets to get a nice selection of fossils to be sold for charity, but I also came away with some neat finds. I still need to photograph a few of them, such as a large nautiloid, and a smaller one that popped right out of the Widder shale. Also bagged a full, but slumped Greenops that could use a little cleaning. For now, a few hash plate pics in situ before I get to posting the rest tomorrow.

[Kane]

Count the crinoid bits! But also check out the neat coral

[Kane]

Closeup of the another example of Syringopora sp. I'll have more tomorrow, including some fairly large and brilliantly preserved colonials.

[DevonianDigger]

Those are some neat hash plates! Plenty to look at there, could probably spend a few hours looking and still find new stuff!

[Shamalama]

I'm itching to get back there to the pits. Might come up this weekend or maybe next weekend. The forecast looks to be dry. Let me know if you want to get out there again.

 

Oh yeah, the Syringopora, are you finding that in the solid limestone layers (I guess that is the encrinal layers)? 

[abyssunder]

I agree with middevonian, this plate could be a crinoid plate and it looks close to Arthroacantha.

 

 

http://michiganbasinfossils.org/search?gr=Traverse

 

Arthroacantha.pdf

 

 

 

[Kane]

@Shamalama Yup, those are from the limestone - fallen slabs, really. I chopped a few out with the chisel and sledge. I was mostly aiming to get some representative pieces for the charity event. I forgot to mention some of the really nice Goniatites that came out of the upper Widder rather than the lower (Arkona mbr). I did go up to help Deb out with some bench work for a time and delighted at some of the encrusted brach layers, but they don't preserve terribly well. Some other curiousities to post tomorrow. Would love to make just one more trip before the snows fly, but it is up to missus and her schedule. Will let you know if we do. If I do, I might just keep to the south pit and continue focusing on the encrinal (which has some occasional, but fairly plump, Eldredgeops if you have the patience and the tools). Playing in the Arkona mudstone is an exercise in diminishing returns on most occasions if my goal is to find anything more than cephs, crinoid stems (never complete), gastros, broken spirifers, tentaculites, poorly preserved trilobite rollers, and a few pyritized bivalves.