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Fossils of the Hell Creek, New Book


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On April 8, 2017 at 0:09 AM, Susan from PA said:

Well put @siteseer!   The really funny part, is that the beta version that I saw, was purchased by friends who have a micro site channel from the Hell Creek Formation on their land.  They purchased the book because they thought it would help them identify fossils that they collect and sell.   I will be interested to see if the version published for sale contains the same statement in its front cover.  

 

Those Patriots are charmed, aren't they? (Cowboys fan here. Please don't hold it against me. :) ).  

 

 

Cowboys fan??!!  I'm old enough to remember Super Bowl VI.  I won't hold it against you, though.

 

 

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On September 22, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Susan from PA said:

Beta version was $275, I believe.  

 

 

 

I think it's weird that the pre-release version cost anything at all.  You'd reserve them for friends and colleagues to comment on and maybe even make notes inside and return.

 

I wonder how they arrived at $275 in the first place.  That's a lot of money for a book.  It would have to be widely-seen as indispensable to professionals and amateurs to generate decent sales.  Even then, a price that high may be too much for a majority of its intended customers.  Henri Cappetta's first edition (1987) and the long-awaited revised edition (2012) of his Chondrichthyes II (well-received fossil shark and ray reference) both suffered from an even higher sticker price leaving many researchers unable to get their own copy unless they got it as a gift or saved up for it.  I still don't have a copy though I've seen excerpts.

 

In David Ward's review of the first edition of Chondrichthyes II, he finished with "Pity about the price."

 

Jess

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I would also like to think that a book with such a high price would feature pictures of very good specimens.  

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11 hours ago, jpc said:

I would also like to think that a book with such a high price would feature pictures of very good specimens.  

 

I'm still not getting what the book is about.  Why do I want to buy a book with photos of incomplete specimens collected by a few individuals?  There's publications elsewhere.

 

The example of an incomplete ornithomimid ungual.  Why not a complete one?  Why an eroded croc vertebra and not a more diagnostic specimen.?  Is this a guide or just a catalogue of their findings?   If they are 'experienced'  field researchers..why wouldn't they have found better specimens?    It seems its not a guide to Hell Creek Formation material but a guide to a localized site that was 'ok' at best.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Canadawest said:

 

I'm still not getting what the book is about.  Why do I want to buy a book with photos of incomplete specimens collected by a few individuals?  There's publications elsewhere.

 

The example of an incomplete ornithomimid ungual.  Why not a complete one?  Why an eroded croc vertebra and not a more diagnostic specimen.?  Is this a guide or just a catalogue of their findings?   If they are 'experienced'  field researchers..why wouldn't they have found better specimens?    It seems its not a guide to Hell Creek Formation material but a guide to a localized site that was 'ok' at best.

 

 

Yeah, and at that level it seems a silly project.  Hell, I bet I can do a better job with my fossils and the collections managers I know... and then to add some folks like you into the mix... it would be easy enough to make a much better 'field guide'.  I have same complaint about the new White River fossil book put out by the folks at Badlands National Park.  Lots of good info in that one, but they used mediocre pictures of mediocre fossils when I know there exist much much better specimens 

 

End of rant.

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a while back i posted on the lithostratigraphy of Hell Creek,BTW

I think it went totally(or nearly so) unnoticed:D 

A good deal of dinosaur literature can be gotten from Fruitbat and generally speaking,online publications .

The drawback might be that what I mean are the trade journals(JVP,e.g.),and scientific terminology is used in those publications.

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I think collectors would love an all encompassing book around the Hell Creek that is easy to understand with good photos of specimens.  It would be an excellent reference source.  The beta copy appears to fall short of that in many aspects but still gives vertebrate collectors a taste of what's out there.   Unless it's reasonably priced it's not going to have much appeal.  The project may have had an initial design but to rely exclusively on what was collected was a bit shortsided and is counter to the title of the book.  Will see what it looks like after its published.

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How good an author are you?:P:D

People like what you post ,so you seem to have the uncanny knack of understanding what "Joe Public"" wants. 

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15 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

How good an author are you?:P:D

People like what you post ,so you seem to have the uncanny knack of understanding what "Joe Public"" wants. 

 

Thanks,  but NO NO with being an author.  I do however understand what collectors need because being one I struggle to find information I can use and understand for my own collection.  So if its something that makes sense to me there is a good chance others might like it. Papers are good but much to technical for most who just want to be shown what a specimen looks likes, what it belongs to and how to identify it.  Give them that, it will make them happy collectors. 

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I often find it difficult to understand what i'm looking at,without the "technical specification"*

You yourself and the others in this thread noticed what CAN happen when trying to (over)popularize science :overblown prices

*And the funny thing is: I sure know how to get my technical literature,but i have YET TO FIND A GOOD,GENERAL BOOK on BONE that's NOT behind paywalls

BTW:i am keepin my eye on a piece by Tinius on general(=vertebrate) claw morphometrics.

 

 

 

 

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  • 11 months later...
On 9/22/2016 at 11:38 AM, Troodon said:

Looks like we will have a new book describing Vertebrate fossils from the Hell Creek Formation courtesy of the paleontologist Thomas Carr and others.   What I heard is that the publication is scheduled for this fall, no idea of price. I was able to get a hold of a beta copy while visiting one of ranches I collect on and took some quick phone pictures.

20160918_043916.jpg

 I had several reactions when I read the book,  the dinosaur section getting poor grades while the other sections were informative.  It was the first publication that covered vertebrates other than dinosaurs.  The information shown was very descriptive and covers finds collected by the authors group since 2006.  The books weakness is that if it was not collected it did not make the publication and the authors did not look to supplement the information.   The other weakness is that the photos used were that of the actual pieces collected in what ever shape they were in.  For example,  they are providing you a guide to an Ornithomimid hands claw only showing you a half of a claw. 

 

 

The best part of the dinosaur section was the descriptions of Thescelosaurus foot claws and teeth which I will show on another post.    Theropod teeth shown were poor examples and not every species covered.   No mention of Nanotyrannus since this author does not support its existence.

So the best use of the book is for trying to ID fossils other than dinosaurs from the Hell Creek or Lance Formations.   A book that is not all encompassing but few are and should augment other reference material.

 

Was this book ever published? Google search turned up nothing.

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24 minutes ago, JohnBrian said:

 

Was this book ever published? Google search turned up nothing.

No and have no idea if it ever will.  Carr no longer mentions it on twitter its been a long time since he's said anything.

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22 hours ago, Troodon said:

No and have no idea if it ever will.  Carr no longer mentions it on twitter its been a long time since he's said anything.

 

Would have been a useful book.

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8 minutes ago, JohnBrian said:

 

Would have been a useful book.

Yes I was looking forward to seeing it.   Unlikely but it still may come out..

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2 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Yes I was looking forward to seeing it.   Unlikely but it still may come out..

 

Hope so!

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  • 1 year later...
1 hour ago, hanqinhu said:

Aah! That's fantastic! Can you tell me where to buy this book?

Sorry but I don't believe it was ever published

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It was a beta version that was handed out at the Carter County Museum, MT during their annual dino shindig where paleontologist come and give presentations. 

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