Buying a Sauropod Foot Claw?

[Troodon]

I was reading a paper Fruitbat just posted in his fantastic PDF library, on sauropods see below,  and it triggered a concern that I've had for a while for collectors purchasing claws.   First let me preface the discussion by saying I'm not a sauropod expert just throwing out some observations and questions.    Identifying claws is not an easy diagnosis.

 

Sellers typically put a name, mostly at a genus level, on claws they sell.   I have several in my collection and boy they are indeed hard to distinguish between families.   

 

Here is a seller offering a juvenile Diplodocus foot claw from the Morrison formation.

So is this a juvenile? or just one of the smaller claws from a hand or foot?  Also, what's so diagnostic about this claw that one can claim it's from a Diplodocus? 

 

A museums view of Diplodocus foot

 

Then there Apatosaurus not much different.

 

I personally believe trying to identify isolated sauropod claws to family level is very difficult since there is very little diagnostic about them.   Its a non starter for most except for the most knowledgeable in the field.   Issues like age of individual,  position in the foot, distortion and preservation make a diagnosis very hard.   

 

Here is a seller doing it the right way calling his specimen just Sauropod.

 

I think if your interested in purchasing a claw that you're interested in having a positive ID it needs to be done with an associated foot since they are diagnostic.  Another possibility is knowing that a claw came from a Quarry that is predominantly from one type of Sauropod.  

 

Here is a seller doing exactly that, selling an Apatosaurus foot.

 

The paper that started this post has a couple of nice views of Camarasaurus feet/claws that you can use for comparative purposes.

 

 

 

Tschopp, E., et al. (2015). Articulated bone sets of manus and pedes of Camarasaurus(Sauropoda, Dinosauria). Palaeontologia Electronica, 18.2.44A.

 

 

 

 

[HamptonsDoc]

I think Troodon should have a paid position on the forum for all his invaluable posts like this one. Thanks for the information!

[Susan from PA]

15 hours ago, HamptonsDoc said:

I think Troodon should have a paid position on the forum for all his invaluable posts like this one. Thanks for the information!

I couldn't agree more!  

[sandgroper]

Another informative thread from Troodon, thanks for taking the time to do this mate. I'm currently collecting together the foot bones, one by one, of an Edmontosaurus with the view of setting up a bit of a display of an entire foot, albeit one made up from several animals so this thread is really interesting to me, thanks mate!

[Troodon]

23 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

Another informative thread from Troodon, thanks for taking the time to do this mate. I'm currently collecting together the foot bones, one by one, of an Edmontosaurus with the view of setting up a bit of a display of an entire foot, albeit one made up from several animals so this thread is really interesting to me, thanks mate!

 

Thanks, not sure if you've seen this paper but it may help your project

Hadro Foot.pdf

 

1 hour ago, Susan from PA said:

I couldn't agree more!  

 

16 hours ago, HamptonsDoc said:

I think Troodon should have a paid position on the forum for all his invaluable posts like this one. Thanks for the information!

 

Paid , well that sounds nice but not necessary and appreciate the supportive comments.  Just a dinosaur nut that has some spare time to fill in retirement.

[sandgroper]

On 10/14/2016 at 6:43 AM, Troodon said:

 

Thanks, not sure if you've seen this paper but it may help your project

Hadro Foot.pdf

 

 

I have that saved on my computer but thanks for thinking of me! I have saved as much information and images as I can find on hadrosaur feet, it will take me some time to collect all the pieces to complete the project but in the mean time I'll learn as much as I can about the subject. Thanks again mate and I agree, you should be paid!

[-Andy-]

I think we should open a new award for Troodon called: Member of the Year

[Mike Price]

Informative post. I was searching Camarasaurus- sauropod foot claws. Your 2 threads come up and scrolled pics.... Thank you.

 

Based on a few other examples these 2 pieces might possibly be Camarasaurus or sauropod type foot claws? I have more, big & small, that look the same and maybe others releated, some need to be stabilized.

 

And from what I read, Camarasaurus was also the most common of the giant sauropods found in North America. I found all mine at the end Brazos river, Texas.

 

If I may, I will post a few pics. I'd like to know for sure what these are. Delete accordingly.

 

[Mike Price]

[Mike Price]

[Mike Price]

[Mike Price]

 

Sorry guys......

[Susan from PA]

Hi Mike!  Someone with a good grasp on Sauropod claws will probably be along shortly.     In the meantime,  might want to edit your pictures above so that it shows just the pictures, and not the name of the sellers.  Names of sellers can't be posted in this section.  

[Troodon]

You're asking about the two claws shown in the pictures above.  What are the bones in your last picture that are weathered?

Camarasaurus is just known from late Jurassic deposits.  However,   Titanosaurids however have been found in the Late Cretaceous of West Texas and early Cretaceous of Central Texas

Do you know the age and formation where you found these.  I know nothing about the Brazos river and it quite long.   That's the first step in trying to see what you have.  Are we looking at the late cretaceous Woodbine Group or the early cretaceous Trinity Group or another?

@Mike Price

 

[doushantuo]

I usually post like the proverbial headless chicken.

And i am NOT going to change my ways.

Does the following contribute to the discussion?

Most certainly not.

Is it helpful?

perhaps

BonnSauroMapostur1.pdf

[Mike Price]

Yes, I asking if it's possible if the two weathered bones I found surface hunting at the base of some high banks on the Brazos river are sauropod type toe claws. I have found 100+ toe bones and as many toe claws "big and small" that are similar and others that are not.

 

I'm here to try to learn. I worked in the global oilpatch for 30yrs. I can drill a oil or gas well or fight a well fire and cap it when it blows out. I never had time to learn about bones, I only collected them and scrolled looking at pics for years. Now I'm retired and I have time to try and learn about the bones I've collected.

 

Please feel free to delete my posts, or I will, if they don't add anything to this thread. I'll move on. Thanks for any input....

 

[Troodon]

Mike do you know anything about the age and formation they were found in.  If you don't know where on the Brazos may help.

 

Got it.  Your two bones do not look like claws.  The one on the left may be a phalanx (toe bone) of one, the other is a question .  Can you take pictures of the other side and ends

[jpc]

I don't think they are sauropod claws either.  The one side looks more broken and eroded giving them a sauropod claw shape.

[Mike Price]

Thanks, guys....

 

I live at the mouth of the Brazos river.

 

The 1,280 mile long river and its high sand and clay banks is a bone rich environment. I comb and dig the river from the Hwy 35 bridge in W. Columbia to Hwy 36 bridge in Freeport.

 

The Brazos, like most of the other rivers in Texas and along the Gulf Coast, no longer empty directly into the Gulf of Mexico. They feed into the Intracoastal canal system and cuts to the gulf.

 

I've taken better pics and I'm adding a 3rd piece with more detail that is similar to the other two.

 

 

[Mike Price]

[Mike Price]

[Mike Price]

[Mike Price]

This is the 2nd smaller piece.

[Mike Price]

[Mike Price]