Sea star from Finland

[Kara]

Hello again from Finland!

 

I need your expertise again 

This big Sea star fossil was found a couple of years ago from an energy peat stock in inner Finland. It originated from a Finnish mire (drained to a peat bog). 

The pics are poor, but can you identify what species this is? How old can it be?

 

Thank you very much!  -  Kara

[StormDancer]

I cant help with identification, but that is one cool find. I have never seen one like that before.... fantastic

[Kara]

Thank you. 

The story behind this is very weard, but true. An old lady brought it to me a few years ago and saed her daughter had just found it from the peat. It was really weard and I wondered how an earth could it be in there, but didn't have the time to get it checked then. I would really appreciate any information of this thingie 

[TqB]

That's a very strange thing to find in peat!

 

It looks like the horned sea star Protoreaster nodosus which is Asian and Pacific. They're widely sold however... check out the photo of the dried one:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protoreaster_nodosus

[RJB]

Simply put,, Wow!!!

 

RB

[abyssunder]

I can't make better photos at the moment, but I think your specimen resembles mine, which was bought  many years ago in Finland and was given to me as a gift by an old friend. She said, I remember, " I bought you a fossil from a specialized store", but I was disappointed seeing that the beautiful Asteroidea is not a fossil.
What I could say is that mine is not a fossil (extinct), but a living one from our days (extant). This not means that yours couldn't be fossil. Unfortunately I don't know the species name, I've never checked, I just seen your post and I thought is helpful to contribute to it with what I can give.

 

Meantime Tarquin posted a relevant information, and I think he's right.
Thank you for this !

 

[Kara]

Looks like this!

Oh, so this must have been a practical joke then - someone must have placed it there to have some fun with either the finder or me  ... or maybe thrown it to the peat angry knowing the thing was not something he/she originally bought? Who knows..  A good one, might I say! 

Thank You again, I will pass the information to the owner, the case is solved. 

 

- Kara 

[doushantuo]

Glacio-isostatic rebound has brought a lot of peatbogs submerged during marine transgressions above sealevel in a relatively short space of time.

 

 

[Kara]

If it helps any, this was found from Lappajärvi region, which is an old meteorite crater area. I did some reading and it was saed, that there have been found lots of Ordovician fossils from that area.

.... hmmmm?

[ynot]

Most of the things that come out of bogs are a dark brown or black color, stained from the tannin that is released from the plant material.

A starfish is not the type of animal that would live in a freshwater bog environment.

I think the starfish is a recent specimen.

Tony

[Kara]

Ok, got my hopes up for a second thinking maybe it had to do something with the impact stirring up the cambrian and ordovician layers of this area. According to the source the area has been under a subtropical sea with lots of Echinoderms. But yes, the peat bog is not a place for a starfish to pop up, you're right .  

Thank you!  This must be somebodys souvenir thrown away. -  Kara

 

[jpc]

32 minutes ago, ynot said:

Most of the things that come out of bogs are a dark brown or black color, stained from the tannin that is released from the plant material.

A starfish is not the type of animal that would live in a freshwater bog environment.

I think the starfish is a recent specimen.

Tony

I agree... likely modern.  

[doushantuo]

I never said this particular starfish is a non-marine fossil organism.

It might be subfossil.

I know which animal are dulcaquicoles and which are not.

I know the salinity tolerances and ecology of echinoderms,i know the geomorphology of coastal habitats,and I know my geodynamics.

I also know my peat,and all other vegetative sedimentary deposits.

Marine fossils are of course found in peat bogs,that is what you pick up from reading Boreas,Quaternary Science Reviews,ESPL,ESPL(yes,those are different publications,GEOMORPHOLOGY),the Holocene,Journal of Coastal Research,RPP,the Journal of Paleolimnology,etc

I also know taphonomy.

So someone was carrying around a loose starfish  (a lot of people do that),got fed up with carrying the thing,and thought,""hang on,I am going to throw this thing in this peat mire here?"

My first obervation being,btw,that it is amazing this echinoderm is not disarticulated.

Transport  by  an avian predator?

 

[doushantuo]

you responded WHILE i was typing??

Got good literature on meteoric impacts in the Baltic,Kara.

You've taken a peak at my profile.

It says there "global events"

that includes Lappajarvi

 

[Kara]

Thank you Doushantuo for this!! 

Omg, did I get it right .... so can this be a real fossil then? My english is so poor I'm not sure if I understand everything right 

[doushantuo]

No,hate to disappoint you,this particular starfish is not Paleozoic.

What can happen with meteorite impacts is redeposition of sediment,disturbance of strata,etc.

And no false modesty ,please,your English is fine.

Not a trace of a Finnish accent .

NB:Protoreaster * biogeography: "Indo pacific"

*proceeding forom the assumption that this is P.Nodosa,btw

You might like to know that (paleo)Fennoscandia has been hit by celestial impactors in the Ordovician

 

An example of literature on paleozoic impacts:

 

 

Meinhold_swedenordovicimpactcrateretraterrsl_2011_GondwanaResearch.pdf

[Kara]

Yes I took a peak, for your writing was so informative and scientific I thought you must be an Academy professional teaching natural history of Fennoscandia . 

Thank you again, I'm learning a lot here! 

 

 

[doushantuo]

A lot of people don't think i'm informative.

Actually,thanks for posting in the first place.

This just goes to show that animal remains can be redistributed in the weirdest ways  .

If you have doubts about your english,just PM me.

My experience is that language AND cultural barriers can have weird (unexpected)effects.

And no,I am not a Native English speaker

NB:

The starfish Protoreaster nodosus (Linnaeus, 1758) is an invertebrate belong to the order Phanerozonia, class Asteroidea, and phylum Echinodermata. Members of the genus Protoreaster are found in the warm Vietnamese sea, and have been historically used as tonic agents in Vietnamese folk medicine. However, studies on the biological activities of P. nodosus are limited. In previous studies, the main constituents of P. nodosus were found to be polyhydroxylated steroids [22], several of which exhibited moderate cytotoxicity, steroidal glycoside sulfates [23], galactocerebrosides [24], and gangliosides [25]. As part of our ongoing investigations of Vietnamese marine organisms regarding anti-inflammatory activity [26-31], we found that a methanolic extract and dichloromethane fraction of P. nodosus showed significant in vitro anti-inflammatory effects.

 

 

[caldigger]

The real question to be asked about this piece is, was it found just sitting on top of the bog or was it dug out. I must agree with Tony, if this object was under the surface of the bog for any suggnificant amount of time it would be discolored to a noticeable degree. 

The similar reason that it is often difficult to distinguish if a piece is fossil or not when found in some of those brackish water rivers. The rotting vegetation creates the tannic acid that stains bone very dark. This piece is not discolored at all, which is strange especially for an animal that is as porous as a sea star. 

If this little girl found it in the bog, it would certainly have been right on the surface which supports the theory of it being tossed out in a relatively short timeframe before being picked up.

[Kara]

On 12.11.2016 at 6:47 PM, Kara said:

Hello again from Finland!

 

I need your expertise again 

This big Sea star fossil was found a couple of years ago from an energy peat stock in inner Finland. It originated from a Finnish mire (drained to a peat bog). 

The pics are poor, but can you identify what species this is? How old can it be?

 

Thank you very much!  -  Kara

 

As I wrote, the thing was found from an energy peat stock. This is what happens with my bad english  ..: with "stock" I mean a warehouse / storage, a place where dried peat is storaged for energy use. So it was found from a peat mass already collected from a peat bog. The finder is an adult 40+ woman who was an employee there. She brought it to her mother, who then contacted me. This is all I know now, but I can call the finder for more precise information. 

It have started thinking, that maybe someone put it there just to have fun at her expense . Who knows ... as jolly Finns we are 

 

This has been very interesting, thank you all again!