Name that Bone! (Alligator Funny Bone)

[Bone Daddy]

Found this bone in the Peace River recently. I know I have seen these before, but I cannot recall what it is. Does anyone know what critter this belongs to?  Turtle? Deer?

 

Thanks!

 

[jpc]

bird humerus... no idea what genus.  good find.  

[tmaier]

That's a humorous bone.

[ynot]

1 minute ago, tmaier said:

That's a humorous bone.

I thought it looked a little funny!

 

Tony

[calhounensis]

I disagree that this is bird. Looks like an alligator humerus to me.

[Bone Daddy]

We find a lot of deer, turtle, and alligator bones at this spot.  But I don't recall finding a bone exactly like this one. It doesn't look too recent, but I can't quite tell if it's truly a fossil per-se.

 

[Harry Pristis]

That humerus/humorous joke is way overused.

 

For comparison:

 

 

[Bone Daddy]

It looks a lot like alligator to me and that fits with a lot of what is found there.

 

[jpc]

OK...maybe I was just wishful

[tmaier]

Some people might think that an alligator couldn't have a humorous bone because they are ugly and scary, but I grew up reading "Pogo", and "Albert" was very humorous all over.

http://www.google.com/search?q=pogo+albert+alligator&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1&tbm=isch

[jpc]

2 hours ago, tmaier said:

Some people might think that an alligator couldn't have a humorous bone because they are ugly and scary, but I grew up reading "Pogo", and "Albert" was very humorous all over.

http://www.google.com/search?q=pogo+albert+alligator&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1&tbm=isch
 

"We have met the enemy and he is us".  

[Harry Pristis]

3 hours ago, tmaier said:

Some people might think that an alligator couldn't have a humorous bone because they are ugly and scary, but I grew up reading "Pogo", and "Albert" was very humorous all over.

http://www.google.com/search?q=pogo+albert+alligator&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1&tbm=isch
 

 

No need to apologize, Tom . . . we all remember some things that were hilarious when we were twelve years old.  But do try to find some new material.

[gavialboy]

great find 

[Ridgehiker]

An aside question.  Are fossil  crocodilia bones plentiful in more recent (Pleistocene, Pliocene, etc.) deposits in Florida?  Are the bones usually found where you find their  teeth?

 

We rarely find the humerus, funny bone or any post cranial bones from crocodilia in our Cretaceous deposits. We find lots of pristine croc teeth,  rugose skull material and various scutes.  But almost no post cranial material...no long bones, no ribs, phalanges, etc.

 

Anyways, I've always been curious as to why we don't find croc bones.  Their teeth and scutes will be mixed in among disarticulated deposits of dino bones....but no croc bones.

[Harry Pristis]

That's a good observation, Canadawest. My own impression, after decades of river diving, is that Alligator long bones are uncommon.  Certainly, they are less common than the living 'gators.  Now that I think of it, 'gator post-cranials of all sorts are uncommon compared to 'gator teeth and osteoderms. Curious.  I suspect the phenomenon has to do with minimum bone strength development in a gravity-free environment (water).  Bone density, plus limited burial opportunity in a watery environment. I can't think of any scavenger (other than micro-organisms) that would efficiently make those bones disappear.  What do you think?

[Carl]

A new fun resource for things like this: http://www.boneid.net/

[tmaier]

I was about to say that the culprit for the missing alligator long bones might be the environment, but then we get a lot of manatee bones, so that doesn't sound like a strong argument. The freshwater swamp environment is very acidic and highly bacterial, so the bones are likely to be consumed by chemical and microbial action. A swamp environment can mummify occasionally, but often acts like a digestive organism and consumes all the remains. The aerobic environment is often digestive, and anaerobic is often preserving.

We had a 13 footer that died and it bloated (typical) and just floated around the back swamp areas. It was like a big floating gas bag, and the odors could be smelled for hundreds of yards away. Finally, after a couple weeks, some government employees got tired of waiting and went out and shot some holes in it to sink it.

[Ridgehiker]

Tmaier

Yes,  the variable might be an acidic swamp like environment.

 

Also, the Cretaceous crocs in our part of the world were never that large. Despite a variety of genera over a 15 million year stretch, the teeth are from 1 to a max of 2.5 cms in length. 

 

Ha...can tell there are no Grizzlies in your state.  The smell of that bloated alkigator would have attracted them from miles away.  When a dead whale washes up on the British Columbia coast, the Grizzlies will literally eat it for months.  Grizzly cubs tumbling over the carcass ( they are allowed to play with their food).

[LordTrilobite]

This thread is hilarious. Wait, did I do it wrong?

[caldigger]

"Grizzly cubs tumbling over the carcass ( they are allowed to play with their food)".

This brings images of how endearing it is to have your just bathed dog immediately run off and roll in fresh manure or other dog feces.  Aw, how cute!

[Harry Pristis]

High acidity of swamp water would be destructive to 'gator bones; but, all 'gators or even most gators don't live and die in swamps.

 

The story about grizzly bears and whale carcasses was instructive.  'Gators are carrion-feeders, in fact, 'gators may store a large prey item to allow it to "season" for a while.  And, 'gators have no compunctions about eating another 'gator.  For the significant percentage of 'gators who lived in lakes and larger streams, one of their own, bloated and floating would be easy pickings.  And, what would the scavenging 'gators target?  The limbs, of course!  A "death roll" wouldn't do much good in detaching the head or the tail from the armored body, but the limbs would detach readily.  Given the digestive powers of crocodilians, it's a wonder we find any limb bones at all.

[digit]

In reference to certain bones being found more often than others. I had asked Dr. Richard Hulbert why it seemed we found so many ankle and toe bones as well as teeth from the various tiny horse species but few other bones while digging at the Thomas Farm sink hole site in north central Florida. His reply was that teeth are a lot more solid than skeletal bones and those of the feet were significantly more dense to be able to handle the stress placed on them supporting the animal. That density seems to preferentially preserve those bones more than ribs and other post-cranial elements that do not bear such loads. Seemed pretty obvious once I'd heard that explanation and it seems borne out with the specimens I find in the Peace River. Dugong bones are very dense (being used by the animals as ballast to counteract their blubbery countenance) and that explains why some sites can be positively littered with them. It doesn't take long for those who hunt the Peace River to start becoming very selective on any dugong material. After you've passed out dugong 'paper weights' to all your friends and family, you only tend to keep very large or complete specimens or those with possible indications of scars left by predators.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Harry Pristis]

Bone density as a result of stress/load-bearing doesn't seem to be related to your example of pachyostotic dugong ribs.  On the contrary, dugongs lived in water, a gravity-free environment.  There must be some other explanation for dense dugong ribs (different from the development of pachyostosis in horse ankle bones).  Buoyancy-control is one such explanation.  There's not much of a selective advantage for buoyancy-control in the evolution of horses.

[digit]

8 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

There's not much of a selective advantage for buoyancy-control in the evolution of horses.

 

How about in the family Syngnathidae?

 

 

(Sea Horses)

 

 

I've always heard the story of the dense non-cancellous dugong rib bones as being an adaptation toward increased density to assist in buoyancy control. I've never questioned that statement as I've assumed it would have been able to have been proved experimentally with manatee or the last remaining Indo-pacific species of dugong.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken