We can't figger this one out. ( SOLVED : COUNTER SEPTARIAN STRUCTURES!)

[tmaier]

OK! I'm a believer. I asked for extrodinary evidence and this sure fits the bill!

Amazing. They sure don't look like they were made by natural forces.

[Fossildude19]

Great supporting evidence, Doctor Mud!

Thanks for the papers!

 

Mother Nature is an artist!  

[doushantuo]

The Fuchs article mentioned by Seilacher(in German)

ichnology/sedimentology

Astin:

 

astinseptariaclassic!!!!NICEREVIEWseptariconcreti21-4-617.pdf

[t-tree]

I really enjoyed following this thread and the detective work involved in it. 

 

John

[abyssunder]

On 11/24/2016 at 9:29 PM, abyssunder said:

Maybe the owner of the specimen might take the effort to make a mold, so we could see how it looks like as the counterpart of a counter-septaria, maybe then I could see the septarian cracks.

 

Thanks to Doctor Mud now we have the necessary and sufficient data to conclude properly.

 

from A. Seilacher's excellent work Concretion morphologies reflecting diagenetic and epigenetic pathways :

 

" I was made aware of this phenomenon by a photograph (Fig. 15 (a); Courtesy of Prof. C. Mendelson, Beloit). It shows the lower side of a hard crust that developed on the drying mud in residue ponds of a Surinam bauxite mine.
Fossil counterparts (Fig. 15 (a) and (b); courtesy of Prof. S. Kidwell, University of Chicago) come from a concretionary layer in the Pliocene near Tucson, Arizona. Here the patterns developed on both surfaces, with some of the polygonal cracks penetrating the core layer. In all cases the boundary of the hardened layer was gradational, so that the adhering mud could not simply detach when it dried out. In addition, crack propagation was constrained at every step by the pattern of the previous crack generation. "

 

Also, Fig. 15 (d) explains the mystery patterns of the specimen from  this thread.

 

 

" In a less spectacular version of such counter septarian structures, the tangential cracks did not propagate spirally. Instead they formed a round knob in the center of each first-order polygon, thus mimicking the nuclei in a cellular tissue (Fig. 15 (d)). This suggests that the defoliating cracks started from the polygonal cracks of the previous order and propagated towards the center of the enclosed area. "

 

Carl was right in both cases.

 

 

 

 

[supertramp]

Thank you,…thank you all for having learned so much,

great papers too;

 

and...yes, Abyssunder, here we had a misunderstood counter septaria

So, can this extraordinary pattern be present also on manganese nodules?

It would be interesting to know how it was explained (don’t think as counter septarias)

 

ciao

[Doctor Mud]

16 hours ago, TqB said:

 

As well as solving this, a fabulous paper packed with all sorts of other goodies, thank you!

It is a great paper and it solved another mystery for me. Some strange concretions I've been seeing at a site I frequent.

 

Thanks to Carl for the great lead that led me to this paper

[ynot]

OK, I humbly retract My previous statements and accept this object as a geologic oddity!!

My hat off to @Carl, @JohnJ  and @Boesse et al. for thier persistence with identifying this thing!! (and putting up with this doubter.)

 

THANK Y'ALL

 

Tony

 

PS It is always nice to learn about something strange like this.

[tmaier]

" My hat off to @Carl, @JohnJ and @Boesse et al. for thier persistence with identifying this thing!!:1-SlapHands_zpsbb015b76: (and putting up with this doubter.)

"

A person who follows proper methods of science must demand evidence when claims are made. that's how science works.

A few hundred years ago and earlier, the method was that one noted person would give an opinion (Artistole, etc.) and everybody else would agree out of reverance for that person. Those were the pre-science days. Modern science requires everybody be a skeptic, and all theories and hypothesis are continuously on trial. There are no longer any noted person who is allowed to dominate the decisions, that old system not only didn't work, it caused many ridiculous thoeries to perpetuate over thousands of years.

So, when a claim is made, be prepared to defend it.

What immediately gave proof to me was that two of the pieces, having extremely similar patterns, were found thousands of miles apart, showing that the source was unlikely to be the same one, and pointing more towards a natural fabrication.

[Carl]

Wow! I missed a lot over the weekend. Thanks so much, Doctor Mud, for finding the missing piece! Man, we work in a fun field! Great job, everyone!

[PRK]

AND, great kudos to you (the mud Doctor), for your diligence in tracking down the solution to this intriguing puzzle. A big THANK YOU!

and a BIG thank you to Carl. You had me at your drawing

[PRK]

The saga of the counter-septaria continues

i don't know if anyone will see this post, but my friend found and glued that missing piece

in another pile. I found this interesting and thought you all might too. What a cool piece

[abyssunder]

That is a good news! Thanks for the update.

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by abyssunder
I just borrowed Tim's processed image, and I changed the initial one from my post with this. Now looks better beside the incomplete specimen. Thanks Tim for your work !

[TqB]

Very satisfying. It's my favourite specimen of the year. 

[Ludwigia]

I never cease to be amazed at what nature brings forth and at how human beings can piece things back together. This is the thread of the year for me and all of the detectives here deserve an award for it. Dolf Seilacher was a genius in his field...actually, he basically created it.

[Fossildude19]

Thanks for the update, Paul. 

Very cool geologic item. 

 

[Carl]

Incredible!

[Innocentx]

How lucky to see this message of complexity and beauty from nature.

[PRK]

Hmmm, I've been thinking about this, and since the originally described specimen was associated with large ore deposits, if this specimen could indicate a previously unknown, large ore deposit in the same vicinity

[abyssunder]

I think, this thread could be pinned.

[JohnJ]

2 hours ago, abyssunder said:

I think, this thread could be pinned.

 

Good idea. 

[dre464]

I've been following this thread with interest...I thought it was man-made as well...

 

What a fascinating discussion!!  And what great detective work by Carl and Dr. Mud!!  These structures are beautiful, and a total surprise...

[bone2stone]

On 11/24/2016 at 11:08 AM, tmaier said:

Made... by... hippiess?

You left out tripping on LSD.

Perhaps found as a geological and was altered to a random "whatever came to mind", albeit drug enduced state of mind.

This was my first impression about this object.

I seem to recall some blacklight posters from the early 70's that some similarities. 

Although on a larger scale and much more elaborate. 

I vote natural with human intervention/alterations.

Bone2stone

[I_gotta_rock]

It could very well be mess-american in origin. Have it analyzed. Trade happened. I've found quartz pebbles in the Peace River, Florida, even though quartz is not native to its watershed. The original inhabitants traded for them. There is evidence of stuff from east Asia making its way to Europe well before Marco Polo, one trade stop at a time. No reason this couldn't have travelled the same way.

[Fossildude19]

On 12/28/2016 at 3:56 AM, bone2stone said:

You left out tripping on LSD.

Perhaps found as a geological and was altered to a random "whatever came to mind", albeit drug enduced state of mind.

This was my first impression about this object.

I seem to recall some blacklight posters from the early 70's that some similarities. 

Although on a larger scale and much more elaborate. 

I vote natural with human intervention/alterations.

Bone2stone

 

20 hours ago, I_gotta_rock said:

It could very well be mess-american in origin. Have it analyzed. Trade happened. I've found quartz pebbles in the Peace River, Florida, even though quartz is not native to its watershed. The original inhabitants traded for them. There is evidence of stuff from east Asia making its way to Europe well before Marco Polo, one trade stop at a time. No reason this couldn't have travelled the same way.

 

This has already been determined to be of geologic origin.

See this post, and this post.  

Regards,