minnbuckeye Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 The possible appearance of a chameleon may be a result of how the broken pieces were arranged. It appears to me that a few pieces are NOT positioned properly based on non matching patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRK Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 I too noticed that. But the guy that glued it is a true professional. And so, far be it for me to question his judgement . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I have been looking at this thing and thinking about it. It has a vague resemblance to mesoamerican stone work, but is lacking the organization and detail of such. It was also found well out of thier area of influence. It does not match know art styles of the indigenous people of the area it was found. IMO-- not an artifact. I can not think of any geologic structures that would create this intricate of a repeating pattern, complete with minor spirals. IMO-- not a geologic creation. In the side pictures there appears to be a thin layer associated with the embossed side that looks like a slip layer that was filled with another material, ie a layered modeling clay. IMO-- it is a decorative tile or piece of art from a modern creation. I also agree that some of the pieces do not match in the manner they are assembled. Tony 4 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 After getting over my initial response to this wonder, I feel oddly quite sure it is natural. I have seen similar superficial spalling patterns on rocks before. Maybe none this ornate and beautiful, but similar enough. Either way, it is truly extraordinary! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 10 minutes ago, Carl said: I have seen similar superficial spalling patterns on rocks before. Can You post pictures of these? Tony Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, ynot said: Can You post pictures of these? Tony I wish I could but I have none saved. Googling this is tricky but if I find anything I will certainly post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 For me the designs and the lines look too regular .. too specific. If I was going to make this as an artist I would want to create a slip cast, or a cast that I would push the clay into. Curious if the material is a ceramic, or porcelain that has been water worn. Perhaps it might be plaster ? Cheers, Brett 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 It is a bit free-form so maybe a type of slab-work where they work into the surface or press patterns into the material or coil pot ? These examples are a bit simplistic .. but still. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 Yeah, Brett, that is what I was thinking of. Modern art that is stealing motifs from precolumbian art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I'm still quite convinced this is not an artifact but a bizarre geological wonder. Still having a heck of a time finding the right image but we addressed similar fracturing a while ago in this discussion: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Carl said: I'm still quite convinced this is not an artifact but a bizarre geological wonder. Still having a heck of a time finding the right image but we addressed similar fracturing a while ago in this discussion: I agree, Carl; I still stand by my original assessment. The size of the object, the material it was described as, the 'topography' of the object, and the eroded areas all indicate "geologic wonder" to me. 2 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 JohnJ, Carl - I see where you're coming from if I look at bits of it but what about the consistent spirals that define the main pattern? Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I'm very firmly against this be a creation of nature. It's beyond a doubt man-made (possibly woman made, very possible...). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 On 11/20/2016 at 5:22 PM, PRK said: Yesterday I sent a request fo more detailed pictures. Surprisingly, today I received some. The entire specimen is approx 3" long these pics have better resolution, and the circle shaped detail is approx 3mm Tarquin, "spirals" can occur due to variations in the level of erosion. This object is not flat, and any geologic variations in the deposition are not perfect cylinders. So, offsets in the patterns deposition could create the appearance of spiral. We've all seen museum examples of crystals that looked man made and "couldn't possibly be natural". ( So, now that @Carl and I are on the end of this 'limb'; it would be a great time for Paul's friend to tell us how he made it. ) 2 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 @JohnJ Perhaps, but that still seems to require a 3D spiral (like rolled up paper) to produce it? And the main spirals here seem to be flat... Looks like I'm a creationist on this one. Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRK Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Last week it was shown to a fossil invert specialist at a museum for analysis. He thinks it IS natural--- "microbial mediated sedimentary structure". Similar to the the cyano-bacterial mats of mono lake. Of course that is only one opinion. Wow! My knee jerk ID was also manmade. I've never before seen a natural structure like this. If this is true ??????????PK 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 That is a new one on Me!! I would like to see some more examples of this type of formation. (for comparison.) Tony Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 2 hours ago, TqB said: JohnJ, Carl - I see where you're coming from if I look at bits of it but what about the consistent spirals that define the main pattern? I can't claim to understand the physics clearly but the signal I'm getting from things I've seen points strongly towards geofact. I realize it sounds crazy. And I am looking for images. But that's all I've got for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 There's no way that is natural. Definitely man made. It does look eroded though. I'm thinking this was carved rather than sculpted from something like clay. And then later worn down that gives it the weird look. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I looked up ""microbial mediated sedimentary structure". and do not see this plate as a representative of what I could find. The intricate pattern of PRK's piece is far beyond anything shown in the articles that I looked at, and most "microbial mediated sedimentary structure". that were cited are pre cambrian in age. I stick with this being a man made piece. (pending better evidence to the contrary.) Tony Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 John's tag line is making me suspicious... "The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true." ;-) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 FOUND IT! It was in Seilacher's Trace Fossil Analysis: 33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Excellent detective work, Carl! Thanks for being so dilligent! I would never have guessed this. Well done, sir. Learned something today! Regards, EDIT: 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 On 11/23/2016 at 8:58 AM, Carl said: FOUND IT! It was in Seilacher's Trace Fossil Analysis: OK I can see it being one of those even though there are no complete circles in this sample drawing and no true spirals in the object in question. Also the third generation "check" marks do not match in appearance kudos on this one Sir! Tony. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmaier Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 It has the spiral patterns, and the crack patterns, and the ornamentation of the faces of the spirals, but I would have to see a photo of this specimen rather than just a drawing. I think natural forces would be much more systematic and mathematical in its rendering of this sculpture-like object. I'm still convinced that our original specimen is hand carved (or a cast of a hand carving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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