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tmaier    835
tmaier

The weathering happened after the carving (or casting). I collect antiquities, and many of them are weathered to look gelogical like that. Weather did not carve them, but the surface errosion creates that illusion.

"has the pattern been matched to mesoamerican artwork to a greater degree than the illustration, or is this still just supposition?)"

You agree with all the rest of us that it is not an ancient artifact. Here, you are beating on a strawman who does not exist. What has been mentioned is that the motif of it seems to be derived from precolumbian art. Several people have linked to such art.

As I've stated already, declaring this icredably intricate design to be natural is an extrodinary claim to me, and there is no evidence. That drawing is not acceptable. Please show at least one photo of any geological specimen that comes anywhere close to what we see here.

I demand evidence for such an amazing claim.







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TqB    979
TqB

I am partly persuaded of its natural origin by this area of the edge which has a random septarian look to it. Better photos might help.

Screen Shot 2016-11-24 at 09.33.59.png

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tmaier    835
tmaier

Boesse, you have to get off the artifact thing. You are the only one on that wagon train. ;-)

Can you show a single photo of anything like what we see here?

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JohnJ    1,516
JohnJ
29 minutes ago, Boesse said:

Oh okay, so now we've abandoned the idea that it's an artifact, but now it's supposed to have been carved by somebody contemporary and in more detail than was possible by a paleoindian or mesoamerican? And yet the surface is still weathered/eroded, despite being modern? I'm just trying to get everything straight here.

....

 

I think Bobby made clear that the idea of an artifact was off the table. 

 

A bit of patience will go a lot further than any demands.  ;)  We are all interested in the facts.

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tmaier    835
tmaier

All we have so far is the original specimen, and one vague drawing that doesn't quite seem to match. Could somebody present photos of obviously gelogic origin rocks that in any way resemble this item? What can be found in that direction?

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Boesse    705
Boesse

@tmaier, @Carl has already provided evidence which I accept as being good enough. I'm sold. Carl said he's made inquiries about photos; be patient. We'll be lucky if we get any photos, given that Seilacher has passed away.

 

On the flipside, you've not provided any evidence that it IS art - artifact, or artifact imitation made by hippies. Rather than poking holes, why not provide us with some positive evidence of your hypothesis.

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tmaier    835
tmaier

Made... by... hippiess?

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tmaier    835
tmaier

Oh-oh... I'm out of here. ;-)

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Boesse    705
Boesse

I jest, but seriously, I have no idea what your alternative hypothesis is supposed to be.

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jhw    29
jhw

For what it's worth, I did a pretty thorough google image search using every possible term and phrase I could think of. Found nothing quite like like it, geologic, trace fossil, man made or otherwise. A real mystery this one!

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JohnJ    1,516
JohnJ
On 11/19/2016 at 2:24 PM, PRK said:

A fossil friend found this in an open country, dry stream bed, while hunting in eastern Oregon.

what the ---?

 

 

@PRK Paul, could your friend narrow the area down to a county?  :)

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PRK    89
PRK

This is not my specimen. I was just contacted for my opinion. 

All I know at the moment is rural E Oregon

PS the drawings were enough to convince me, and btw

what kind of tools would the ancients use for such tiny sculpturing?

 

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abyssunder    2,628
abyssunder

Maybe the owner of the specimen might take the effort to make a mold, so we could see how it looks like as the counterpart of a counter-septaria, maybe then I could see the septarian cracks.:headscratch:

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supertramp    86
supertramp

What a strange specimen…I’ve never seen anything like it;

maybe it would help to have some more pics of the opposite side;

…the “designs” seem to have a corresponding pattern in the depth (so, not carved), though “floating” over a darker matrix rather than being the superficial traces of some cracks filling (which I do not see from the images, as Abyssunder said)…so, I would not include this piece in the septarian side (though “counter septarias”);

very weird one

 

ciao

 

1.jpeg

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ynot    2,046
ynot

argh!!!:wacko::blink::headscratch:

 

I can not think of any process that will create concentric circles, with more circles within circles on circles.

If this is caused by shrinkage then there should also be lateral shrinkage causing a break in the "donut" shapes.

Also in the third generation of markings there are some that are simi spirals and some that are concentric circles and some that are more of a blob.

I can not see that type of variation occurring in a natural geologic formation, as described in the article that Carl provided.

If You score a rock it will break on the plane of weakness that the scoring creates.

 

:headscratch:still confused here!

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Doctor Mud    400
Doctor Mud

As a side note I was lucky enough many years ago to have weekly lectures by Dolf Seilacher. He was visiting the university where I was doing my undergrad in New Zealand.

We normally had laboratory or practical time of three hours and for a month we had weekly talks from Dolf on all sorts of things including trace fossils.

I remember an entire lecture on barnacles - which I didn't appreciate as much then as a second year student as I probably would now....... Back then I was mostly interested in vertebrates.

A major theme running through his discussions was self organisation - how simple rules or phenomenon can give rise to apparently complex structures. He must have been fascinated by these counter-septaria.

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TqB    979
TqB
3 hours ago, Doctor Mud said:

HI everyone,

 

Very strange structures indeed. I tracked down this journal article:

 

"Concretion morphologies reflecting diagenetic and epigenetic pathways"

by the man himself - Adolf Seilacher

Seilacher 2001 concretions.pdf

 

This time with photographs of the phenmomenon. Most similar to the example of the OP is Fig. 15c:

The figure caption  gives some insight on how these could form (see next post for figure and caption).

 

 

 

As well as solving this, a fabulous paper packed with all sorts of other goodies, thank you!

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