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Opinions on this fossil lizard please


britishcanuk

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Hi,

 

i was hoping for some thoughts on this specimen that was listed on a local buy/sell site. The ad stated the following;

"

As a gift, my hubby received this fossil in a stone slab while in China on business several yrs ago . It was a gift without any documentation, but given the source, he believes it to be authentic. FOR SALE!!!"

 

 

thanks for looking.

 

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While it looks like it could be authentic from these photos. But these photos aren't detailed or close enough to know for sure. And even then, photos are rarely conclusive.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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Right off the bat, I would say this is art, not nature.

- it is too perfect, too FAB, just to knock-dead wonderful to be true
- the fossil shows no interaction with the matrix, it seems the fossil is printed on
- the slab matrix looks like it was selected for its beauty, and not very much like one that would harbor a fossil

Take a close up photo of some of the bones.

This doesn't seem to have any relief to it. If you pass your hand over it, is it smooth flat, or lumpy? Take a side angle photo. I think this is printed onto the slab.

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I asked for more photos, closeups. This is what she sent. Any additional thoughts with these new closer shots?

 

thanks!

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Either Hyphalosaurus lingyuanensis or H. baitaigouensis. The closeups look quite ok, but I am not sure if it is really genuine.

Thomas

Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC).

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Infortunately, it is located 2-3 hours away. All I have to go by are these photos, a wing and a prayer... Lol.

 

it looks pretty good to me, but it could be just wishful thinking. I might just take the leap and buy it if nobody here can give any good, compelling reasons on why it's a fake.

 

The left wrist looks touched up to me, the rest appears authentic. 

 

Would atill very much appreciate others opinions, thoughts and suggestions.

 

thanks for the comments so far everyone.

 

R~

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I would be very cautious with this one. It looks too perfect. Look at the hind legs, they're symmetrical and they just look odd. They're both in the shape of an "L". Looks strange. Same thing with the front legs, they're symmetrical as well.

 

The entire skeleton is complete and doesn't appear to have any flaws which is a red flag in my opinion.

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While better, those photos are still not great. Still kinda blurry.

 

I don't see anything that immediately screams fake. Most of it looks good. But the photos really aren't good enough to gamble on imo. It's your call.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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I would say real with some touch-ups.

 

The close-ups look on point, but it looks a tad too perfect.

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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OK, it isn't printed.

My remaining objections are that the story of it coming from China a couple years ago does not seem possible (not legal, as far as I know), and also the fossil seems to be ON the matrix, as opposed to being EXPOSED from the matrix.

An the perfectness of it just bugs me...

https://www.google.com/search?q=Hyphalosaurus+fossil+china&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1&tbm=isch

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What I like about the fossil are the following;

 

-extremely detailed, including features such as gastralia under the ribs, something I wouldn't expect a fraudster to include

-protruding from rock

-vertebrae and rib counts seem accurate and consistent with H. baitaigouensis

-I don't see any unusual proportions at all, everything looks as I should proportionally, including the toes which are usually obviously off on fakes

-the lower jaw has migrated slightly, exposing what appear to be teeth (photo isn't clear enough to be sure though)

-I believe the story of its seller is plausible

-the bones look to be biologically

accurate

- I think the photo at this link looks very similar to the one I posted, including the matrix texture and colour https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hyphalosaurus_lingyuanensis.jpg

-some of the ribs are broken and the pelvis is smashed up... imperfections are good

 

what I don't like;

-no collection data

-it is uncannily perfectly positioned and preserved.

-some touch-ups seem evident, but this could be a good sign that most of it is authentic.

 

the good points outweigh the bad by my estimation. Think I might pull the trigger and hope for the best. I will report back regardless of what I discover.

 

thanks for your comments everyone, it has been very interesting!

 

Would still love to hear additional thoughts and opinions!

 

 

 

 

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Sorry I can't give any advice on the fossil itself ... however, my thought would be to maybe try to do a FaceTime or Skype call with the seller.. maybe you can get a better idea of how it looks before making a long drive? And possibly see if it seems shady..

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When I asked for a photo of the back side of the slab, the seller informed me that it was glued to a piece of drywall for framing. It was given to them that way. Preaumably, this is common practice with larger fossils on thin, soft slabs. Not sure if this changes anything, as far as it's legitimacy, but is one more bit of info. I am going to have her ship it to me. Hopefully cash in some of my karma points on this one, LOL!

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Eish, @britishcanuk I've never bought or sold a fossil, but just in general that sounds very shady! How is she going to ship it if it is attached to the drywall? I hope you aren't sending payment first. 

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1 hour ago, Jonelle said:

Eish, @britishcanuk I've never bought or sold a fossil, but just in general that sounds very shady! How is she going to ship it if it is attached to the drywall? I hope you aren't sending payment first. 

This made me laugh, but please forgive me... It is glued to apiece of drywall cut to the size of the fossil... not a complete 4 by 8 foot sheet.  

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Well, I have sent payment... to a complete stranger, without any possibility of recourse, for a fossil that is too good to be true based on photos too poor to draw any conclusions. lol. Going against all common sense, suggestions and warnings on this one.

Will report back whether I receive a parcel or not!

 

R~

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, britishcanuk said:

Well, I have sent payment... to a complete stranger, without any possibility of recourse, for a fossil that is too good to be true based on photos too poor to draw any conclusions. lol. Going against all common sense, suggestions and warnings on this one.

Will report back whether I receive a parcel or not!

 

R~

 

 

 

Good luck, keep us updated!

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Based on the photos alone, I believe you will be pleased when it arrives. 

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See

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Well, it arrived. The box it came in was somewhat ominous, and it wasn't packed particularly well, but it did arrive in a hurry.

 

Ill cut right to it, it is REAL and it is EXCEPTIONAL! It seems as though my gamble paid off, and I stumbled across a real gem of a fossil. The fossil doesn't show any restoration, even under a microscope. The matrix has been pieced back together, and the entire slab is glued to that back of a piece of plaster board, which is probably the only thing keeps big such a delicate piece together. The specimen measures 67.3cm from the tip of the tail to the snout. It was dusty, so I gave it a quick dusting and it just popped right out. Here are some pics...

 

 

 

 

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