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Is this Mosasaur jaw real?


Aurelius

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Hi there. I've been looking at this jaw, and based on what I've read, I'd guess that the matrix is probably real but the teeth have been placed after the fact. Can anyone offer any insights please? Thanks.

 

s-l1600 (1).jpg

s-l1600.jpg

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Do you know the location were this was found. There are a lot of faked mosasaur jaws from morraco but this looks different. Maybe partial restoration on this piece?

Dipleurawhisperer5.jpg

I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie.

 

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I like it, but I am certainly not an expert in this material. The common fakes are insertions of "real" crowns with perhaps faked roots into a manufactured matrix. This piece certainly does not have the look of the dozens of ersatz "jaws" offered. Look at the large tooth at the upper margin. Would a forger go to the trouble of piecing a fractured tooth into sham matrix? It's possible, but it would be a lot less trouble to pop in a whole tooth. The same observation applies to the tooth next to the paper label. It appears fractured. Would a scam artist go to that unneeded effort? For me personally, the price would dictate my willingness to acquire such a piece and therefore take on the risk of disappointment. Good luck, have fun.   

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See

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I think it looks pretty good, with maybe some roots manufactured. 

They look a bit too smooth to me. 

See below.

 

s-l1600.jpg.47da5a6640bea3756ba0ae16f38e1c0f.jpg

 

Moroccans are artisans, and are capable of some well done restorations/manufactures.

That said, this looks fairly natural to my untrained eye.

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Looks real to me. Completely unlike the typical fakes.

 

It's how the jaw blends into the matrix, and the overall fragmentary nature of the bones that indicates it being real.

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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A typical Khouribga, Morocco Mosasaur jaw. No doubt about that. Prognathodon sp. by the looks of it.

 

I agree with Andy, it looks real. There are no red flags to speak of that could indicate it's fake. The layout is nice and random which would not be expected of a fake. True sometimes real jaws have additional teeth placed in them. But I do not see much evidence of adding extra teeth here.

It has definitely been glued a lot giving the matrix a flatter look. There don't seem to be any deep cracks which suggests there might be some artificial infiill.

 

The tooth roots and the join between them looks pretty good. The only tooth I have some doubt about is the tooth on the top right corner. The area between the tooth crown and root looks a tiny bit too smooth in terms of colour and almost doesn't seem to match. So I disagree with Fossildude19 about the teeth on the left. Those look completely real to me. It's normal for that area to be pretty smooth in general, with only some bumps and striations in some areas.

But better photos are needed to know more for sure.

10 hours ago, Aurelius said:

s-l1600 (1).jpg

 

 

So overall the piece looks really good. There are only a few small things that still have questions attached to them as I mentioned above. The morphology of the teeth also looks consistent with each other. In fakes different species are often mixed. It doesn't look like that here. These teeth look like those of Prognathodon sp. The enamel of the teeth looking smooth is also consistent with Prognathodon. The piece of jaw with three teeth on the left is from the outside of the jaw. Probably either maxilla or dentary. Most of the drifted teeth on the right of the piece look like they belonged to the front of the jaw as they are taller and thinner. There also seem to be some other unidentified skull elements present in the block.

 

This looks good. I say go for it if the price is right.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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As said before, this jaw looks real.

I asked the same question recently on this very forum, unfortunately the answers weren't as positive...

Maybe this will come in a bit handy (the beginning of the topic).

 

Anyways I also say go for it and buy it, this one looks real.

 

Best regards,

 

Max

Max Derème

 

"I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day."

   - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier

 

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If you can, look at it under UV light. Parts of it will most likely fluoresce, and if some parts fluoresce very different colors, it is probably repaired. If the teeth or bone fluoresce differently than the matrix(quite possibly green) than they are placed in or fake. Try different UV wavelengths.

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6 hours ago, Peto Lithos said:

If you can, look at it under UV light. Parts of it will most likely fluoresce, and if some parts fluoresce very different colors, it is probably repaired. If the teeth or bone fluoresce differently than the matrix(quite possibly green) than they are placed in or fake. Try different UV wavelengths.

This might not help due to the amount of glue on the surface. Even a thin layer of stabilising glue can sometimes almost completely block the fluoresence under a UV light. Real pieces might appear to be the same brightness as the matrix just because of a thin layer of glue.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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I did buy this in the end, thank you to everybody that commented. I'll post an update when it gets here and I can say any more about it (or post a better photo or two).

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This arrived today, here's some photos. It's quite a beautiful block, and is much deeper than I'd anticipated, so there must be a lot of bones and teeth that aren't visible.

 

 

PCB_9685.jpg

PCB_9685-2.jpg

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Those teeth and roots look good. I'd say these haven't been tampered with. Very nice piece. The fatter teeth are probably further back in the jaw while the thin ones are probably more towards the front. With such smooth fat teeth this is looking like Prognathodon sp. I'm seeing jaw bones, some other possible skull bones. That big flat bit on the left looks like it could be part of the skull roof. I'm also seeing some smaller fish vertebrae. It's hard to tell with it being so fragmentary and with still a lot of matrix on it. But I think that the jaw piece with the teeth still attached to it is part of the right maxilla (upper jaw). There's some other fragments near it that look like they could be part of the front of the bone and another part of a nostril.

 

Are you going to prep it further or will you leave it as it is? There might be a chance that that possible maxilla could be pieced back together.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated. I would like to prep it further, but it's difficult to know where to start. I have a workshop with air pen etc, but previously I've only prepped ammonites and bits of British ichthyosaur, so I don't know what to expect. There's also the issue that the fossil has been coated with something (glue?). 

 

It's about five inches deep, but I have no idea whether there's likely to be much still hidden below what we can see? I'd love to find out, but am worried about the possibility of ruining it - I've wanted one of these for years, and this is the first one I've been able to afford!

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This typical Khouribga, Morocco material is generally very soft and I wouldn't advise using a tool like an air pen. I clean fossils like this exclusively with dental picks. When possible I always use a microscope. I find that many times the glues used on these types of pieces are soluble in water. If it's a thin layer removing it gently with a dental pick will do fine. If that doesn't work, dip a small brush in water to locally soften the glue. But be very careful. Often water also makes the matrix and bones very fragile. I'm prepping a small Halisaurus jaw right now that has some glue on it. when I use the wet brush I make sure I don't get too close to the bone itself. Or if I need to get close to the bone with the wet brush I just apply it very carefully.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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Last year I prepped a similar block using only a pin vise and carbide needles. This is the same type of prepping endorsed by LordTrilobite's experience. I believe you will find this matrix very amenable to this approach. You are faced with another issue, however. You report the matrix contains much hidden material - WHERE TO STOP? Good luck, have fun.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See

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Made a quick doodle of what I'm seeing based on just these photos. So I'd say part of a skull with maybe some lower jaw teeth. But I don't see any bones that look like lower jaw. That piece of bone to the far right looks like it could be the front of the maxilla bone. Clearly it's not a complete skull. But it looks like you could have some of the skull bones fairly complete. top left there seems to be part of the skull roof. The triangular piece looks like it could be part of a frontal bone. There might also be some parietal parts to the left of it. The premaxilla seems to be completely missing.

Probably just cleaning the already exposed bones a little more would be a good place to start just to learn more about which bones you have and if there is more to expect under the matrix.

 

 

prognathodonjaw_labeled.jpg

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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Wow, thanks - I really appreciate you doing that. I'm surprised how much stuff is there. I didn't pay very much and had low expectations, but I've quickly fallen in love with this piece.

 

I'll do as you say and try to clean up what's already visible and see what happens. 

 

I did notice this, right at the bottom - I assume it's a shark's tooth?

 

 

20161208_202052.jpg

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Looks like squalicorax. They are pretty common but nice looking teeth. Here's one from my collection.

Squalicorax_sp_01.jpg.0926c21f6841115fe4

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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Good eye LT. squalicorax tooth.  It was obvious after I read your post. Haha.

nice fossil Aurelis

It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators.

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