Santonian fish scale

[David in Japan]

Hi TFF friends,

how are you doing?

 

I found last week in one of my drawer those two fish scales I found about a year ago in Amakusa, Himenoura lower formation, Japan.

 

I searched on internet for documentation speaking about fish material found in this formation to get some hint and put a name on those scale but I was unsuccessful. 

 

Is anybody has an idea of what kind of fish it could be?

 

 

And I have another question related to this. As I don't want to die idot, do you have any book suggestion concerning this subject?

 

Thank you by advance,

 

best regards

 

 

[David in Japan]

second scale:

 

[sdsnl]

It looks a little like a gastropod in the family Patellidae, might that be possible?

[caldigger]

"Anybody has an idea of what kind of fish it could be?"....a dead one!

[David in Japan]

9 hours ago, sdsnl said:

It looks a little like a gastropod in the family Patellidae, might that be possible?

 

Unlike Patellidae, the shell is flat and it is less than one millimeter thick. No trace of Patellidae found at the site or into the local documentation so I do not think it is a Patellidae

I had the same reflex at the beginning and looked into gastropod because at first I thought it was kind of kind of operculum. 

 

8 hours ago, caldigger said:

 

"Anybody has an idea of what kind of fish it could be?"....a dead one!

 

 

 for sure I can confirm that ^^ 

 

[sdsnl]

9 hours ago, David in Japan said:

looked into gastropod because at first I thought it was kind of kind of operculum

I saw in another post that you found an ammonite at this formation. Have you searched the aptychus of the ammonites found there?

[David in Japan]

1 hour ago, sdsnl said:

I saw in another post that you found an ammonite at this formation. Have you searched the aptychus of the ammonites found there?

 

Yes indeed I looked for ammonite's aptychus there and found some. Mainly Gaudryceras' anaptychi.

 

 

 

 

 

No fish guy around? please do not let Caldigger be the most accurate comment  

 

[sdsnl]

1 hour ago, David in Japan said:

Yes indeed I looked for ammonite's aptychus there and found some. Mainly Gaudryceras' anaptychi.

I see, Indeed doesn't look like it.

 

I searched a little about fish scales, maybe you can compare the pics here and narrow it down: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_scale#Leptoid_scales

[David in Japan]

Thank you. I read the wiki article too and was thinking that it looked liked a ctenoid scale (flathead) as at the opposite side of the lines there are some bumps.

But as I am a total amateur in fish and I didn't want to influence the answers I didn't mentionned it.

[sdsnl]

2 minutes ago, David in Japan said:

Thank you. I read the wiki article too and was thinking that it looked liked a ctenoid scale (flathead) as at the opposite side of the lines there are some bumps.

But as I am a total amateur in fish and I didn't want to influence the answers I didn't mentionned it.

I thought it might be more cycloid (pike) because the bumps don't seem to go that far, and the pike one also looks like Patellidae. But I don't know if they could live in a marine environment

[David in Japan]

I have no idea for pike. I know in france you can only find pike in lake, and rivers.

It is really tricky to identify a simple scale. Hope a fish expert will show up and help us.

[abyssunder]

I think this document might be good for a starting point : Yoshitaka Yabumoto, Teruya Uyeno. 2006. Late Mesozoic and Cenozoic fish faunas of Japan.  Island Arc 3(4):255 - 269.

 

or if you prefer this ... pdf