Pohju Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Just wondering if someone could help ID this fossil. It is part of a large stone (10 pounds) with many of these on the stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 That is actually a Spiriferid brachiopod. Most likely Mucrospirifer mucronatus. They are a very common find in some Devonian areas, like upstate New York. They are known to be an Index Fossil of the Devonian. Nice find. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pohju Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: That is actually a Spiriferid brachiopod. Most likely Mucrospirifer mucronatus. Nice find. Regards, Good call - looks like your righto!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonianDigger Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 That definitely looks like a brachial valve of a Mucrospirifer mucronatus. Nice looking one at that. Cool find! Welcome to TFF! Yet again, Tim beats me to it, Jay A. Wollin Lead Fossil Educator - Penn Dixie Fossil Park and Nature Reserve Hamburg, New York, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonianDigger Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Here's one from my collection collected at Penn Dixie in Western New York. (First one I grabbed, not prepped and with something else in association.) Jay A. Wollin Lead Fossil Educator - Penn Dixie Fossil Park and Nature Reserve Hamburg, New York, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramon Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Spiriferid brachiopod, I have many of those in my fossil collection. "Without fossils, no one would have ever dreamed that there were successive epochs in the formation of the earth" - Georges Cuvier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey P Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Here is one of mine from Central NY and that's another one in my avatar. The one you have is an internal mold which means the original outer shell dissolved at some point. Mucrospirifer brachiopods are found in Middle Devonian sediments of NY's Hamilton Group and in Pennsylvania's Mahantango Formation and in sediments of the same age in some other neighboring states and provinces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonianDigger Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Yes it is! I don't know why I didn't bother to mention the mold part :/ Thank you @Jeffrey P for clarifying that! Jay A. Wollin Lead Fossil Educator - Penn Dixie Fossil Park and Nature Reserve Hamburg, New York, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Would these have been hinged up the middle like a "Butterfly scallop". If so the closed creature would have been triangular??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 53 minutes ago, snail said: Would these have been hinged up the middle like a "Butterfly scallop". If so the closed creature would have been triangular??? No, no. What you see there is just one stiff shell. The other one is either buried in the matrix underneath it or competely missing. Check this link out: http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpalaeos.com%2Fmetazoa%2Fbrachiopoda%2Fimages%2Fbrachi.gif&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpalaeos.com%2Fmetazoa%2Fbrachiopoda%2Fbrachiopoda.htm&h=437&w=432&tbnid=0ACwCYPfFNT2AM%3A&vet=1&docid=HBisqf28sTD9PM&ei=qFdvWP_rLcqva679oDg&tbm=isch&client=firefox-b&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=6015&page=0&start=0&ndsp=28&ved=0ahUKEwj_38qaj63RAhXK1xoKHa4-CAcQMwgeKAIwAg&bih=760&biw=1600 Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 55 minutes ago, snail said: Would these have been hinged up the middle like a "Butterfly scallop". If so the closed creature would have been triangular??? Not sure if I know what you're saying, exactly. They were hinged shells, but the symmetry of brachiopods is different from that of pelecypods. Brachiopods were symmetric (looking at the shell from above) side to side, whereas pelecypods were symmetric from front to back. Here are pictures of Mucrospirifers in different orientations. Regards, EDIT: Ooops! Looks like Roger beat me to it. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 The 'wings' aren't for flying. They enclosed it's feeding apparatus, known as a lophophore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Nice spirifer. "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 11 hours ago, Rockwood said: The 'wings' aren't for flying. You know I'm going to have to retract this part. I would be surprised if selective pressures to inhabit places with the current to feed in without being buried by it didn't produce a shape that provided a certain amount of lift. On a very limited scale I bet they did fly ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 "Delabole Butterfly" is an old quarryman's name for the very similar Cyrtospirifer verneuli from Cornwall, usually found flattened. Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 17 hours ago, Jeffrey P said: Here is one of mine from Central NY and that's another one in my avatar. The one you have is an internal mold which means the original outer shell dissolved at some point. Mucrospirifer brachiopods are found in Middle Devonian sediments of NY's Hamilton Group and in Pennsylvania's Mahantango Formation and in sediments of the same age in some other neighboring states and provinces. I am trying to learn how to tell an internal mold of a brachiopod from an external cast. I have some brachiopods that are free from the matrix but only one valve and, like a bivalve, they have ornamentation outside but a smooth inside surface but can have internal features preserved. How do you know this is an internal mold without seeing the other side? Could any possible growth lines just be worn off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Bob, I think the lack of any real ornamentation, along with the slight gap around the fossil, and the indents from the hinge teeth at the hinge line, all point to it being an internal mold. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 15 hours ago, Fossildude19 said: Not sure if I know what you're saying, exactly. They were hinged shells, but the symmetry of brachiopods is different from that of pelecypods. Brachiopods were symmetric (looking at the shell from above) side to side, whereas pelecypods were symmetric from front to back. Here are pictures of Mucrospirifers in different orientations. Regards, EDIT: Ooops! Looks like Roger beat me to it. I know what 'snail' is thinking but of course you guys gave the right reply anyway.. If it were a clam, you'd be right in interpreting the fold to go down the middle, in this pic. The hinge is actually along the straight edge at the top. As for 'mold', I think you can kind of tell a mold just by the look of it, but one of the giveaways that I have noticed for brach's is those two little holes/slots in the rock near the 'beak'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 I would say it is an internal mold (underside) of a dorsal valve of a Mucrospirifer mucronatus. Maybe other examples of other specimens from the same matrix could reveal more details. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisk Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 On 1/6/2017 at 5:12 PM, BobWill said: How do you know this is an internal mold without seeing the other side? Could any possible growth lines just be worn off? Here's a picture of the interior showing the location of the hinge teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Thanks Tim and trisk, I see what you mean about the hinge and teeth. I guess the answer to my other question is that sometimes you can see traces of the external ornamentation on the inside so they would be visible on an internal mold. That's the part I haven't seen on my brachs before. I don't have many showing the inside at all and even those are casts of the outside and inside of a single valve. Internal molds are common for many cretaceous mollusks from here but the Carboniferous shells of both mollusks and brachs I find here are mostly external casts so maybe I just need to get out more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Hinge teeth, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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