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Wha this is ?


Napoleon North

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Hi 

Whats  is this ?

Location: Cave near Twardovski Cave , Kraków , Southern , Poland

Age:?

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I agree. Modern fish preoperculum. 

Regards,

  • I found this Informative 1

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

   MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png      PaleoPartner.png.30c01982e09b0cc0b7d9d6a7a21f56c6.png.a600039856933851eeea617ca3f2d15f.png     Postmaster1.jpg.900efa599049929531fa81981f028e24.jpg    VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png  VFOTM  --- APRIL - 2015  

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"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

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I agree with the others, but I think the possibility being from a saltwater fish like Herring is quite low.
I'm wondering who ate freshwater fish in a cave like Jasna or Twardowsky Cave? A bear, or a man? Maybe it's from a primitive man's lunch? Who could know that? :headscratch:

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

Thomas Mann

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On ‎1‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 2:20 PM, abyssunder said:

I agree with the others, but I think the possibility being from a saltwater fish like Herring is quite low.
I'm wondering who ate freshwater fish in a cave like Jasna or Twardowsky Cave? A bear, or a man? Maybe it's from a primitive man's lunch? Who could know that? :headscratch:

 

Herring is not an unreasonable guess, Abyssunder.  Check the line-drawing below. 

 

You have the right idea, I think . . .  the preoperculum is likely to be of an archeological, rather than paleontological nature, the remains of somebody's lunch.  (Bears don't eat fish in a cave, but humans might.)

 

Herring is a favored human food.  It has been widely transported for centuries as salted, smoked, even pickled fish.  It is easy to imagine humans sheltering from bad weather in a cave and eating some preserved fish.  Even if the fish were headless, it is equally easy to imagine some scraps from the butchering table might be preserved in the cask of fish flesh. 

 

So these are the answers to your own speculation:

There is no reason to rule out the possibility the bone is from a saltwater fish based on the location.

There are good reasons to consider the fish bone is from a herring.

The human consumer of the fish need not be a "primitive" man, unless you are referring to bandits, Cossacks, soldiers, or other Pre-Industrial Age travelers.

fish_preopercula.JPG

  • I found this Informative 4

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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I agree, Harry, with your statement, and considering there are no naturally deposited saltwater fishes in the region, in the Quaternary, also, excluding the possibility that someone in Paleolithicum leaves his favorite hunting area (I wouldn't make that) transporting fish from hundreds of miles away just to consume it with/without the family when the Vistula is nearby ( but can't be ruled out), or the possibility being from a visitor thinking to give a gift to his friend, I'm inclined to believe that the fish remain comes from somebody's 'lunch' in modern times. So, I'll go back to what Tim said.

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

Thomas Mann

My Library

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