aquadementia Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Hi all A friend found this on a beach in South Africa. Is it possible to ID to species or genus level? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Mud Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Definitely a tooth from a marine mammal, looks fossilized too. Any more specifics on the location? @Boesse will have the best idea which marine mammal this belongs to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Mud Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 How long is the tooth? Is it possible to see other angles? This will help with the ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquadementia Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Sorry for delayed response, struggling with signal at the moment. Here it is in my hand. The first pic was next to a standard 330ml coke can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Sorry, i don't see it. "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 I would call it a whale. Maybe @Boesse can narrow it down for You. Tony Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 That is quite a strange looking tooth! I have no immediate idea what it is, unfortunately, but there is an emerging marine mammal assemblage from South Africa. You should email this to Dr. Romala Govender at Iziko, who is currently actively researching the fossil marine mammals of SA: rgovender@iziko.org.za Possibilities include a beaked whale tusk or some strange unidentified dolphin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Is that thing pyritie replaced? Sure looks that way in the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquadementia Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquadementia Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Fantastic, thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Mud Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Look forward to seeing what turns out. I haven't seen marine mammal fossils from South Africa before. The shark tooth in your hand is a great white Carcharodon carcharias. I believe this makes these deposits at least early Pliocene (< 5 million years old) based on what we know about great white evolution. At least in Peru we don't see full serrations like this until 2 million years ago. Check out this info on Elasmo.com http://www.elasmo.com/genera/slides/gw_evo/gw_evo.html?gwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquadementia Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks Dr Mud! After the initial post this smooth edged tooth was found. I quickly scanned through your link and realized this may also be of relevance to someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquadementia Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Various mammalian bones were also found. Some looked like ribs, ball and socket joints and something resembling a scapula too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Mud Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Sounds like a great spot to hunt fossils. Are the bones turning up loose on the beach or are they still in the rock? These could be scientifically important finds. If you get clusters of bones together, especially in the rock, sometimes it is best to contact someone with experience to come extract them. Clusters of loose bones could also indicate they are being weathered out from a skeleton in the source rock. it depends on the site. Some sites you can get articulated or associated bones, and others you will find isolated elements. Skeletons have been broken apart and shifted around before the mud turned to rock. i don't know how much experience you have fossil hunting, but just thought I would mention these things. Context or where a fossil was found in place - and therefore time is very important. I would love to see some photos of your site - you may want to keep it secret, but if you can show us some pics that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Mud Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Here's a link to a post written by Bobby (Boess) explaining why these things are important and what we should look out for as "fossil detectives" in the field. Makes for fun, rewarding and potentially scientifically significant trips. Getting to know your site also helps to find more cool stuff..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquadementia Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks for the tips they were all found loose on the beach sand or being tumbled around in the waves. The bones are severely weathered, however the tooth was found lodged under a large rock which seems to have protected it for the most part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Doctor Mud said: Look forward to seeing what turns out. I haven't seen marine mammal fossils from South Africa before. The shark tooth in your hand is a great white Carcharodon carcharias. I believe this makes these deposits at least early Pliocene (< 5 million years old) based on what we know about great white evolution. At least in Peru we don't see full serrations like this until 2 million years ago. Check out this info on Elasmo.com http://www.elasmo.com/genera/slides/gw_evo/gw_evo.html?gwa There is at least one article I can think of on fossil shark teeth from South Africa. It's Davies (1964) and it notes finds at Uloa and Sapolwana. It shows some shark teeth but the article does not mention any other associated fossils. While the title notes the teeth as Miocene in age, they are actually Pliocene. I have heard of numerous Carcharodon carcharias finds around Milnerton. Jess Davies, D. H. 1964. The Miocene Shark Fauna of the Southern St. Lucia Area. Oceanographic Research Institute. Investigational Report No. 10. 16p. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquadementia Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 35 minutes ago, siteseer said: I have heard of numerous Carcharodon carcharias finds around Milnerton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I'm not an expert, but i think your other tooth is also from a Carcharodon carcharias. "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquadementia Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 It is totally unserrated however the edges are still relatively sharp. I'm fairly certain it isn't a modern C. carcharias. That being said, I am very inexperienced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 The last tooth looks like a C. hastalis. (broad tooth mako white shark.) Tony 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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