Arachnid?

[Fossildude19]

Thanks for posting those, John!

Wonderful finds!

Regards,

[EMP]

Thanks for the reply John! Any thoughts on the more recent pics I posted?

 

The second specimen I have looks pretty similar to yours, except that it is a bit more rounded at the end and has bumps on it. The thing is that the species P. whitei is a transitional one and doesn't have all the characteristics of latter Carboniferous species which has made it hard for me and others I've emailed to get an ID.

 

 

[t-tree]

Hi .......i have collected a lot of arthropod fossils and a good few of them have not had enough detail to id them or i have interpreted them wrong (wishful thinking) .Your 2nd find has a look of arthropod /plant.

 

Hope you find your id.

 

Cheers John

[Fossildude19]

Have fossil arachnids been reported from this formation?  

[EMP]

Yes they have, but they were all fragments (like this possible one). Species is Pocononia Whitei, lower Mississippian Pocono Group (called formation in Virginia, but classified as group in MD).

 

I've never found plants in this part of the formation though...

[Fossildude19]

Have you tried to message Jason Dunlop? 

Perhaps an e-mail to him might be in order. 

Regards,

 

[EMP]

Should I email him?

[Fossildude19]

Yep. I would . Can't hurt.  

 

[EMP]

 

 

Here goes nothing then!

[EMP]

Guys good news! Here's what he said:

 

"Thank you for your email. I know Pocononia quite well having published a redescription of it (attached here) some years ago. Too be honest the original drawings were not great. It’s interesting as one of the few arachnids from the early part of the Carboniferous – most come from the Pennsylvanian Coal Measures at places like Mazon Creek.

 

Your fossil could be a fragment of an arachnid abdomen, and possible a member of the Trigonotarbida. Some of them have quite a robust and tuberculate body. Your fossil has got the right sort of lines across the body for a series of tergites. Whether it’s the same as P. whitei is difficult to say. I don’t think it’s well preserved enough to identify it further but its good to kow that the Pococno Shales can still produce terrestrial arthropod material."

 

It is a trigonotarbid at least! 

[Fossildude19]

EMP,

That is excellent news! Glad I was wrong. 
See - sometimes it helps to have it looked at by experts in their field. 

Congratulations on a noteworthy find. 

Regards, 

Tim

[EMP]

Thanks so much for the help Fossildude, I never would have found out if it weren't for your post. 

 

Possibly the first one found since the original back in 1930. That's pretty cool!

[Fossildude19]

1 minute ago, EMP said:

Thanks so much for the help Fossildude, I never would have found out if it weren't for your post. 

 

Possibly the first one found since the original back in 1930. That's pretty cool!

 

Happy to help out.

No doubt., ... it's very cool.  

 

You should consider donating it somewhere, to be studied further. 

Rare material like this is definitely better off in a museum collection. 

Who knows, maybe a new species. 

 

And please, ... it's Tim. Fossildude is much too long to type.  

Regards,

[EMP]

I'll see if they might want it, I have plenty of photos and memory to catalog it. 

 

I guess it is possible for it to be a new species, isn't it? Not likely, but possible since no one has studied these deposits since the 80s and the fauna of it since the 30s. It'll definitely be worth to check out the site more now that I know they're there. 

[Carl]

On 1/20/2017 at 0:06 PM, Fossildude19 said:

Maybe @Carl knows someone at the AMNH who has spider experience. 

Sorry: none with fossil spider experience that I know of. I honestly don't see a spider here at all.

 

I am THRILLED to find out I was wrong! What a great fossil! Congrats!!

[EMP]

Thanks! 

 

Possibly the first one found since 1930 and the first one ever from this formation in Maryland too. 

[Carl]

Even better!!

[Kosmoceras]

I don’t want to be a damp rag, but I still have my reservations on this - and in the email it did say “could be” – that’s not a definite ID. That said, my congratulations if it is indeed an arachnid - I hope it is.

 

Regards,

[EMP]

He did say that it was good to know that the Pocono still produces arthropod material in reference to this piece, just that it was too poorly preserved to get beyond a "Trigonotarbida" id for the specimen.

[Salvageon]

I have several Calamites from the Fort Union formation that look just like your underlying specimen with joints and all and I have found lots of these Spargarium Antiquum with them.  Very few have this color and most are black and look like a squished bug.  I see differences in yours it but might be worth looking up.

[EMP]

I agree the first one is a plant, but it can't be Calamites since that species doesn't exist for another several million years. I think root silt of Triphllopteris or Lagenosperum is most likely.

 

[t-tree]

I'm pleased Jason Dunlop gave you an id for your find.

 

If you could get a hi-res picture of it i would be interested to see it.

 

Cheers John

[jpc]

That's cool.  I am also glad to be possibly wrong.