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Paleocarcharodon tooth with no data


britishcanuk

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I picked up this paleocarcharodon tooth from the auction site a couple of weeks ago. It was misidentified as auriculatus and has no collection data at all, but was only $10 or so, so I bought it.

 

Because of the faint serrations, it looks like an early paleocarcharodon to me, which is why I wanted it. There is some restoration to the root lobes, which is never ideal, but the blade and cusps have not been touched.

 

My questions are;

1. Do you agree with my assessment that it is an early transitional paleocarcharodon?

2. It looks like a typical Moroccan tooth to me, which is certainly where it originated, but would anyone know if it is safe to presume more detailed data or is this tooth common from multiple localities?

 

cheers!

IMG_1564.JPG

IMG_1565.JPG

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In first view it looks likes a paleocarcharodon.

I copied this image that a member shared in another post...

 

shark_paleocarcharodonanterior_jpg_68748d7e71b58ad51ff3d9819bae3b84.jpg

PHOTO CREDIT: HARRY PRISTIS

But the serrations of yours are not so defined like this...

 

Maybe it's a Otodus Obliquus you have there. Wait for more comments...

 

 

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Otudus teeth are more thick and bulky compared to paleocarcharodon. I believe this tooth is a paleo. The serrations appear to have been damaged/ worn down. Still a nice tooth for $10!

Dipleurawhisperer5.jpg

I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie.

 

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Thanks for your thoughts guys. Vieira, that tooth is wicked. Looks almost like it's halfway betweeen paleo and auriculatus to me, which isn't possible of course, but those fine serrations are cool.

 

Darctooth, on the auction in thought the serrations looked worn or damaged as well, but upon closer inspection in-hand they look to be in very good shape. I believe they are just that faint and obscure, here's a couple more photos that show the serrations in better detail, and backlit.

IMG_1584.JPG

IMG_1592.JPG

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It is a Palaeocarcharodon and I think it is an early/transitional form.  While there appear to be nicks in the cutting edges, it doesn't look like it was carved.  The edges would look like that (irregular with weakly-formed serrations to sort of a wavy appearance to a fine edge in spots - fine enough to be translucent).

 

Teeth like that are found in the Early Paleocene layer.  In the Moroccan phosphates there is Late-Latest Cretaceous, Early Paleocene, Late Paleocene, Early Eocene, and some Middle Eocene (but that stuff tends to be beat-up).  By the time a fossil dealer gets the fossils, it's all mixed together so the site data is lost.  Occasionally, you can find a collector who has personally collected a site or received material from a friend who has collected the site.  It's great when you get some teeth with a detailed label.

 

That tooth could have come out of any site in any of the basins where the Early Paleocene beds are exposed.  It's likely it's from Khouribga in the Ouled Abdoun Basin but fossils from other sites in other basins have also been commercially-available.

 

We've talked about Moroccan stuff before and specifically the sharks.  You should check out this thread:

 

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/472-finally/

 

 

 

  

 

 

Quote

 

britishcanuck said:

 

I picked up this paleocarcharodon tooth from the auction site a couple of weeks ago. It was misidentified as auriculatus and has no collection data at all, but was only $10 or so, so I bought it.

 

Because of the faint serrations, it looks like an early paleocarcharodon to me, which is why I wanted it. There is some restoration to the root lobes, which is never ideal, but the blade and cusps have not been touched.

 

My questions are;

1. Do you agree with my assessment that it is an early transitional paleocarcharodon?

2. It looks like a typical Moroccan tooth to me, which is certainly where it originated, but would anyone know if it is safe to presume more detailed data or is this tooth common from multiple localities?

 

cheers!

 

 

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Beautiful tooth!!!!!

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behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

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image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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  • 1 month later...
On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 0:36 PM, Vieira said:

In first view it looks likes a paleocarcharodon.

I copied this image that a member shared in another post...

 

shark_paleocarcharodonanterior_jpg_68748d7e71b58ad51ff3d9819bae3b84.jpg

 

But the serrations of yours are not so defined like this...

 

Maybe it's a Otodus Obliquus you have there. Wait for more comments...

 

 

 

I'm glad you like my image, Vieira.  Was the thread in which I posted it not worth posting a link, or was it that you happened to have my copyrighted image handy?

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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57 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

I'm glad you like my image, Vieira.  Was the thread in which I posted it not worth posting a link, or was it that you happened to have my copyrighted image handy?

 

 

*scratches head*

 

You don't want your pics used to help others unless it's you doing the helping..?

"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe" - Saint Augustine

"Those who can not see past their own nose deserve our pity more than anything else."

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1 hour ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

I'm glad you like my image, Vieira.  Was the thread in which I posted it not worth posting a link, or was it that you happened to have my copyrighted image handy?

 

I don't see a copyright? But regardless, what matters is that it was used for informative purposes. We don't always get credit for our brilliant ideas :P

 

And nice acquisition!

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."
-Romans 14:19

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14 hours ago, Ash said:

 

*scratches head*

 

You don't want your pics used to help others unless it's you doing the helping..?

 

I was puzzled that you were puzzled by my post.  Now, I think you must believe that the thread I referenced was MY thread.  It wasn't.  At most, I suspect that I offered only the image of my tooth.  But, I don't remember the thread, and I think there may have been other images that might be helpful here.

 

I do want to suggest that good netiquette requires attribution when using another TFF subscriber's images.  I have learned over the years here to speak up when someone is not attributing my images.  Without such reminders, my images and yours may appear in someone else's Gallery album (actually happened). 

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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12 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

I was puzzled that you were puzzled by my post.  Now, I think you must believe that the thread I referenced was MY thread.  It wasn't.  At most, I suspect that I offered only the image of my tooth.  But, I don't remember the thread, and I think there may have been other images that might be helpful here.

 

I do want to suggest that good netiquette requires attribution when using another TFF subscriber's images.  I have learned over the years here to speak up when someone is not attributing my images.  Without such reminders, my images and yours may appear in someone else's Gallery album (actually happened). 

 

Some of your images actually show up on Google images, so it's quite likely many people use them without giving credit because they may not be a TFF member. But to bypass the entire issue, why not put your name/handle on the images so no matter who downloads them and uses them, credit is given to you? Even if it enters their gallery, they don't actually have your specimen and could be using it for their own reference, which is the entire point of making the image in the first place, yes? Put your name on it and even if they had the intent to pass it off as their own, they couldn't :)

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."
-Romans 14:19

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1 hour ago, Jesuslover340 said:

 

Some of your images actually show up on Google images, so it's quite likely many people use them without giving credit because they may not be a TFF member. But to bypass the entire issue, why not put your name/handle on the images so no matter who downloads them and uses them, credit is given to you? Even if it enters their gallery, they don't actually have your specimen and could be using it for their own reference, which is the entire point of making the image in the first place, yes? Put your name on it and even if they had the intent to pass it off as their own, they couldn't :)

 

So tell me again what your interest is in how I speak up for my own legitimate interests.

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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21 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

So tell me again what your interest is in how I speak up for my own legitimate interests.

Can I not help resolve an issue? I understand you may want credit for your work, and in general, it should be given. But in some cases such as images, unless a name is attached, credit will likely not be given. It's just the truth of such matters. If you want credit for your work, applying your name to the images may help :) Otherwise, you may have to make many people aware that don't give you credit that the images are yours :P I would find it a bit tedious after a bit.

 

However, we are straying from the purpose and content of the thread, so this will be my final comment on the matter :) That being said, I think I will do some research on Paleocarcharodon, as I've not done so and have seen the term from time to time. Seems to be a prized tooth in collections.

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."
-Romans 14:19

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Getting back to more important matters the subject of this tread.  

 

The transitional teeth can also be found without any evidence of serrations, a very smooth edge.PCnoserr.thumb.jpg.3537909640dd5dc98405f454b5092f96.jpg58c5bc0020fb4_PCnoserr(2).jpg.7a4c9478bce1412968bcebaf678db92b.jpg

 

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4 hours ago, Troodon said:

Getting back to more important matters the subject of this tread.  

 

The transitional teeth can also be found without any evidence of serrations, a very smooth edge.

That is a beautiful tooth. I would love to have one like that in my collection!

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I agree with Harry. We don't have to appropriate the pics made by other people. It isn't complicated to cite our sources, it is the minimum of respect that we can have for somebody who shares his knowledge and quality pics allied to a reliable work. In any case we can't appropriate the work of others and if we use it, especially without his preliminary agreement, it is to the one who is of use it to quote the author !

 

May be I am "old France", but this is the way I see things. For the rest, I can't help.

 

Coco

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Hello all.

 

I just saw now the comments of Harry Pristis, and I want to give him a explanation.

 

I have a folder in my pc with very pictures and images that I think be informative and I save those... When I saw this topic I remembered that I had some informative picture that I kept.

 

I post that image in this topic but I didn't remembered wich member was the owner of the picture so I only mentioned that I have copied from some topic.

 

Sorry for this offense, wasn´t with bad intention and I don't wanted to take advantage of your knowledge, but I will not do nothing similar in the future. I don't mentioned you in the picture only because I didn't know who was the author of the picture.

 

I ask to the moderatores to delete my first topic with the picture please.

 

Sorry one more time for this.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Vieira said:

Hello all.

 

I just saw now the comments of Harry Pristis, and I want to give him a explanation.

 

I have a folder in my pc with very pictures and images that I think be informative and I save those... When I saw this topic I remembered that I had some informative picture that I kept.

 

I post that image in this topic but I didn't remembered wich member was the owner of the picture so I only mentioned that I have copied from some topic.

 

Sorry for this offense, wasn´t with bad intention and I don't wanted to take  advantage of your knowledge, but I will not do nothing similar in the future. I don't mentioned you in the picture only because I didn't know who was the author of the picture.

 

I ask to the moderatores to delete my first topic with the picture please.

 

Sorry one more time for this.

 

 

 

I suspected this was the case, Vieira.  This image, and many others you may like, are in my TFF Gallery albums.  There is no need to clutter your own hard-drive with unattributed image files.  A search of the Gallery for [my] image may turn up several useful images from other TFF subscribers . . . clearly a richer resource than your own hard-drive folder.

 

This was a simple netiquette oversight . . . don't worry about it.  I won't.

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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13 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

I suspected this was the case, Vieira.  This image, and many others you may like, are in my TFF Gallery albums.  There is no need to clutter your own hard-drive with unattributed image files.  A search of the Gallery for [my] image may turn up several useful images from other TFF subscribers . . . clearly a richer resource than your own hard-drive folder.

 

This was a simple netiquette oversight . . . don't worry about it.  I won't.

 

Ok

 

In future I will have more attention to this kind of situations.

 

Sorry again

 

Best Regards

Filipe

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Well the old internet adage is once you put it online, its out there for the world. You basically surrender it (unless you put a big ol watermark on it)

"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe" - Saint Augustine

"Those who can not see past their own nose deserve our pity more than anything else."

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