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ArrestedBeauty

Bones-Possible Pterosaur

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ArrestedBeauty

     I have finally found the courage to display just 3 of the fossils that I have...as I am just a "baby" in terms of even the novice hobbyists. I cannot guarantee that they are all completely clear of matrix material. I am concerned that my as of yet limited knowledge, could/would likely negatively affect the "Arrested Beauty" that has been set before us; as a "annal" before before written language.

     These fossils were found at home, in my backyard near Maple Valley in King County Washington. As I have said before, I am new at this, but as far as I can tell from the limited information I have found in my search for clues, the area where I live has formations from the Mesozoic, Jurassic and Cretaceous periods. My best educated guess (if you can call mine educated), is that at least number 1 and 2 (from left to right) are foot/hand bones from a Pterosaur. I am fairly confidant that #3 is one end of a femur. Unsure of the animal given that to me, they all look so very similar. I am absolutely not confident enough to make a guess as to the specific species. I am skeptical of my general assessment, given that I have found no evidence that any other fossils of the like have been found in the area; immediate or otherwise. I have also found what I believe to be small diameter pieces of fossilized ivory/tusk here.

     With that being said, please be gentle. I keep talking myself out of even posting these out of fear of making yet another fool of myself (only in a different way). I defer to my much much more experienced peers. Please do let me know if any other angles, etc. are needed for identification.

 

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Peace river rat

I am not sure those are geologic, but I am a neophyte myself.

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Ludwigia

Sorry to disappoint you, but I see no signs of bone material in those pebbles.

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LordTrilobite

Sorry to say, but I agree with Ludwigia. These look like geology. I'm seeing no sign of bone. Pebbles and rocks often have suggesting shapes that remind us of patterns we think we've seen before.

when viewed up close bone is very different in structure to rock or other sediment. Bone has a layer of hard bone on the outside called cortex. Generally fibers will be visible that go in a certain direction. Rock is much more solid and often lacks direction in patterns. And the inside of bone is the easiest to identify. On the inside bones are spongy with a tonne of little holes. Those are generally the things you'll want to be looking for when trying to identify if something is rock or bone.

 

Don't get discouraged though. We all have to start somewhere.

 

Pterosaur bones are also incredibly rare because they are hollow and very fragile.

You said you also found a piece of tusk. Could you perhaps post a picture of that as well?

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Rockwood

I sense there may be a misunderstanding of the scale of the bones being proposed. Would it not be necessary to examine the pieces more closely to see fragments of the fragile bones of a small pterosaur ?

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ArrestedBeauty

I apologize to all of you for having not responded sooner...I will begin replying and fulfilling requests now. To start, I apologize, I have had much going on and in my rush while taking pictures, I put two together where I should have photographed them separately in order to more appropriately adjust the aperture on my DSLR to better enhance the finer detail on each individual fossil. I will do that now. Should not take me quite as long as it would have even a week ago, I would like to think that I am becoming a bit more proficient. 

 

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ArrestedBeauty

@LordTrilobite, having reviewed the photos I have of the "tusk hopeful", I am going to take new photos of that/those as well.

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ArrestedBeauty
50 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

I sense there may be a misunderstanding of the scale of the bones being proposed. Would it not be necessary to examine the pieces more closely to see fragments of the fragile bones of a small pterosaur ?

Incidentally, in my rush...which in reality was me rushing to take the photos and then putting off posting them out of fear that I'm not nearly as perfect as I think I should be (definitely too hard on myself at times, but not at others :blush:)...I did not ad the tape measure to those photographs. I will include with the next round of hopefulls. :PThank you for pointing that out. I still hold out hope of at least having the ability to decipher a bone from a rock (not being facetious here). I did use a decent magnifying glass to look at them.

 

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ArrestedBeauty

I was only able to find 2 "pamphlet" type books from 1959 and 1969. The images and color coding for them is not that clear. I will take a look at the link that you have provided. I truly am making an honest effort to research what I believe I have found, using both TFF and any and all other websites that I find credible. I have put serious thought to joining a club, but am still at odd with myself at the moment. I have serious anxiety and social awkwardness when interacting with people in person. My verbal communication skills leave something to be desired as well. Communicating with people verbally usually decreases my vocabulary to what one can only equate to " English" and a 3rd grade education. Its truly deplorable.  

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jpc

Hi ArrestedBeauty... I will agree with the others that these show no signs of bone,much less anything ptersoaurish.  But keep looking... there are fossils to be found in the Seattle area. 

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Yvie

Hi,yes its a very complex subject when you start out,like I am.You may find our British site easier for learning,our website is more navigable.If you are taking pictures do so on a grey background in day light individually with scale.You may find joining a club will help as with this hobby I'm sure a lot of us are on the autistic scale to some extent,ocd,listing,collecting and obsessive preparation,it is a thing orientated hobby,not a person one and many at a club would be able to identify with your anxiety as they would have felt the same as you in the beginning.Go for it,you've got nothing to lose and plenty to gain with hands on examination of their fossils.

  Goodluck,

         Yvie

 

 

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Yvie
7 hours ago, EMP said:

Looks like some type of granite. I say this because igneous and metamorphic rocks (which are unfortunately common in your area) tend to not preserve fossils. Looking in areas with sedimentary rocks (like sandstone, limestone, shale or siltstone) would be a good start towards finding fossils. Different rock types can often be found through a geologic map, which you can find online to various levels of detail depending on what you want.

 

These seem to be river worn, and rivers/streams can be good for finding fossils since they tend to erode various types of rocks, maximizing the chance of eroding into a fossil bearing formation. Unfortunately this also decreases the likelihood you'd be able to track down where a fossil came from and the species it is, but it could be a good way to get a better idea of what there is available in the area.

 

Reading up online or in books about the different fossils in your area and where to find them is also very important. However, remember that times change and a site talked about in a book may no longer exist and/or be open to the public (I learned that the hard way after going to some places in Jasper Burn's book about the Mid Atlantic).

I agree,I went on Google earth and checked a nearby disused chalk pit,trudged miles to it only to find it filled in nearly to the top with old road hard core waste!

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ArrestedBeauty

It took me much longer to get the pictures back up here, but here is what I was able to do...hopefully these are better images and that they show the detail that we are seeking. If nothing else, they will help to solidify your opinions of what they are. I will take whatever it is you say. I respect your experience and opinions. 

_DSC4699.jpg

_DSC4718.jpg

_DSC4729.jpg

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ArrestedBeauty

@LordTrilobite, here are the images that you requested. I have compared this rock to others that I have found online. I believe that the "texture" is the same, but it is hard to tell. Your input is appreciated and valued.

 

Thank you
Julie

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ArrestedBeauty

_DSC4742.jpg

_DSC4745.jpg

_DSC4743.jpg

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LordTrilobite

The colour and structure does indeed look different from the other specimens you showed earlier. Sadly I think this is just a rock as well. Parts of it vaguely might look a little like bone or tusk as some areas seem to have some details and flaking. But ultimately it lacks the diagnostic structure one would expect from bone or tusk.

 

So lets say for the moment that if this is bone or tusk. What would we expect to see? The piece is very rounded and worn. So if it's a piece of bone or tusk we'd expect to see parts where there is damage. So internal structure should be visible. As I stated in my previous post, bone has sponge-like structures on the inside. We don't see that here. So that means it's probably not bone. Tusk however is a lot more dense. Essentially they are just really specialised teeth. But the inside of tusks and other teeth is generally also fairly distinctive. What we'd expect to see is some type of layering. when growing, tihs creates different layers (I forget if the growin is inside out or outside in). So in a cross section of a tusk you'd see a whole lot of concentric circles and clear layering. Again we don't see such structures in your specimen. In the end, sadly we have to conclude that there doesn't seem to be enough evidence to say that this is bone or tusk. It's probably just another peddle made from a different type of stone.

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ArrestedBeauty

 

1 minute ago, LordTrilobite said:

The colour and structure does indeed look different from the other specimens you showed earlier. Sadly I think this is just a rock as well. Parts of it vaguely might look a little like bone or tusk as some areas seem to have some details and flaking. But ultimately it lacks the diagnostic structure one would expect from bone or tusk.

 

So lets say for the moment that if this is bone or tusk. What would we expect to see? The piece is very rounded and worn. So if it's a piece of bone or tusk we'd expect to see parts where there is damage. So internal structure should be visible. As I stated in my previous post, bone has sponge-like structures on the inside. We don't see that here. So that means it's probably not bone. Tusk however is a lot more dense. Essentially they are just really specialised teeth. But the inside of tusks and other teeth is generally also fairly distinctive. What we'd expect to see is some type of layering. when growing, tihs creates different layers (I forget if the growin is inside out or outside in). So in a cross section of a tusk you'd see a whole lot of concentric circles and clear layering. Again we don't see such structures in your specimen. In the end, sadly we have to conclude that there doesn't seem to be enough evidence to say that this is bone or tusk. It's probably just another peddle made from a different type of stone.

This one too, is probably the same as well then, but it is what I picture when I think of bone. Thank you for your patience with me.

_DSC4734.JPG

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ArrestedBeauty
13 hours ago, Yvie said:

Hi,yes its a very complex subject when you start out,like I am.You may find our British site easier for learning,our website is more navigable.If you are taking pictures do so on a grey background in day light individually with scale.You may find joining a club will help as with this hobby I'm sure a lot of us are on the autistic scale to some extent,ocd,listing,collecting and obsessive preparation,it is a thing orientated hobby,not a person one and many at a club would be able to identify with your anxiety as they would have felt the same as you in the beginning.Go for it,you've got nothing to lose and plenty to gain with hands on examination of their fossils.

  Goodluck,

         Yvie

 

 

Thank you, I will do that. Your suggestion as well as everyone else's are wonderful. I will not give up. 

 

I truly believe that the best, most worthwhile things in life, are the absolute hardest to achieve. We would otherwise, not appreciate any of it....or so I keep telling myself.

 

-Julie

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