Bison bone?

[Peace river rat]

Is this a bison phalanx? I think so. I found it in the peace river. Thanks for any info.

[Drizzt0000]

 

Looks like the my ankle bone I found today which I think is bison

 

[calhounensis]

Bison/Bos medial phalanx.

[Peace river rat]

9 minutes ago, Drizzt0000 said:

Looks like the looks like my ankle bone I found today which I think is bison

Very similar

[Peace river rat]

4 minutes ago, calhounensis said:

Bison/Bos medial phalanx.

Do you know when these guys went extinct in Fl.?

[calhounensis]

Post cranial bones, as well as cranial, are very hard to differentiate between Bison and Bos. Bison would have went extinct somewhere around the end of the Pleistocene in Florida. With a few stragglers into the Holocene I would imagine. Columbus reintroduced cattle to America on one of his early trips, and the Spanish also brought over many cattle to Florida in particular. So if it is Bos, it could realistically be as old as 500 years, more likely it would have been a ranchers cow that died within the last 100+ years.

 

[Peace river rat]

1 hour ago, calhounensis said:

Post cranial bones, as well as cranial, are very hard to differentiate between Bison and Bos. Bison would have went extinct somewhere around the end of the Pleistocene in Florida. With a few stragglers into the Holocene I would imagine. Columbus reintroduced cattle to America on one of his early trips, and the Spanish also brought over many cattle to Florida in particular. So if it is Bos, it could realistically be as old as 500 years, more likely it would have been a ranchers cow that died within the last 100+ years.

 

Pretty cool no matter how you slice it! It does seem very miniralized.

[History Hunter02]

It looks fully fossilized, so my guess it is a bison bone.

[Harry Pristis]

4 hours ago, History Hunter02 said:

It looks fully fossilized, so my guess it is a bison bone.

 

Just what is a "fully fossilized" look?  is it the dark color?  Is it something else you see in the images?  Give us the reasoning behind your guess.

[History Hunter02]

6 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

Just what is a "fully fossilized" look?  is it the dark color?  Is it something else you see in the images?  Give us the reasoning behind your guess.

If you look at the end of the bone, it has the black color, which is formed when organic material is fossilized.  It appears that the bone is that color.  I am a newbie, so I may be wrong... could you please explain to me if I am wrong?

Thanks

[jpc]

The black color can also be form tannins in the water, which if I am correct are present in the Peace.  Tannins can stain bones to make them look fossily very quickly.  

[ynot]

4 minutes ago, History Hunter02 said:

If you look at the end of the bone, it has the black color, which is formed when organic material is fossilized.  It appears that the bone is that color.  I am a newbie, so I may be wrong... could you please explain to me if I am wrong?

Thanks

Tannin is a product of decomposing plant material and can stain a bone very quickly.

Color is a poor indication of a fossil or not.

Tony

[History Hunter02]

9 minutes ago, ynot said:

Tannin is a product of decomposing plant material and can stain a bone very quickly.

Color is a poor indication of a fossil or not.

Tony

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[abyssunder]

If you want to see the difference between a bison and a bos middle phalanx you could check this document.

 

(1)* The tendon imprint in the dorsal surface is deeper in Bison than in Bos. (We find this difference more noticeable when considering the front phalanges rather than the rear).

 

(2)* Bison have a straighter dorsal margin when viewed laterally, while Bos appear dished. (Again, we find this distinction more noticeable in the front phalanges than in the rear ones).

For both Bos and Bison, the front middle phalanges are short and squat, while the rear appear longer and slenderer (see Fig. 58).

 

(3) On the proximal surface of the front phalanges, Bison show a sharply angled step in the posterior margin, whereas Bos have a shallow notch. A similar distinction is apparent in the rear phalanges, but to a lesser extent.

 

(4) For the rear phalanges, the distal condyle juts out from the "shaft" more abruptly and to a greater extent in Bison than in Bos. When examined upside down, this gives the impression of a toadstool in Bison but not in Bos.

 

excerpt from Darlene McCuaig Balkwill, Stephen L. Cumbaa. 1992. A GUIDE TO THE IDENTIFICATION OF POSTCRANIAL BONES OF Bos taurus AND Bison bison. Canadian Museum of Nature. Syllogeus No. 71

[Peace river rat]

12 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

 

Just what is a "fully fossilized" look?  is it the dark color?  Is it something else you see in the images?  Give us the reasoning behind your guess.

Color,(not to important) and very heavy.

[calhounensis]

Not sure how I overlooked this the first time.. This is a proximal phalanx, not a medial. Doesn't change what it came from, however. It still belongs to a large artiodactyl. Either Bison or Bos. Perhaps the document abyssunder attached, contains information of proximal phalanxes in bovids as well.

[abyssunder]

You are correct, it is a Phalanx 1. I will prepare the excerpt and Il'l post here.

 

Here it is:

In both Bos and Bison, the front proximal phalanges seem rather thick and stubby, while the rear proximal phalanges appear slenderer and slightly longer, (see Figure 54).

(1)* The distal two-thirds of the lateral margin is more curved in Bison, straighter in Bos.

 

(2)* Bison have a more conspicuous tuberosity on the medial face below the proximal articular surface.

(3)* Bos have deeper pits on the dorsal face of the proximal end.

Edited February 2, 2017 by abyssunder

[Shellseeker]

17 hours ago, History Hunter02 said:

If you look at the end of the bone, it has the black color, which is formed when organic material is fossilized.  It appears that the bone is that color.  I am a newbie, so I may be wrong... could you please explain to me if I am wrong?

Thanks

Great question. I have been hunting the Peace River for about 8 years now and I can not always tell or be positive on whether a find is fossil or not! There are some great indicators (Marine fossils - where I hunt is currently a river 50 miles from nearest salt water), stuff that does not exist anywhere in the world today (Mammoth, Mastodon, dire wolf, saber cat, and extinct members of llama, camel, Sloth etc), and mammals that exist today but not in Florida (Capabara, Tapir, Peccary, Jaguar etc)

Finally, we get down to the mammals that do currently exist in Florida (Horse, Cow, Coyote, bobcat etc) that could be either modern (100-500 years) or prehistoric (more than 5000 years ago). In these cases , sometimes you can not tell. Maybe or maybe not..

If it looks like a rock, and is solid, and would flake if hit with a hammer,  I accept it as fossil

or

 

But in looking at some possibly Bison, It is hard to be certain.

[Peace river rat]

7 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

Great question. I have been hunting the Peace River for about 8 years now and I can not always tell or be positive on whether a find is fossil or not! There are some great indicators (Marine fossils - where I hunt is currently a river 50 miles from nearest salt water), stuff that does not exist anywhere in the world today (Mammoth, Mastodon, dire wolf, saber cat, and extinct members of llama, camel, Sloth etc), and mammals that exist today but not in Florida (Capabara, Tapir, Peccary, Jaguar etc)

Finally, we get down to the mammals that do currently exist in Florida (Horse, Cow, Coyote, bobcat etc) that could be either modern (100-500 years) or prehistoric (more than 5000 years ago). In these cases , sometimes you can not tell. Maybe or maybe not..

If it looks like a rock, and is solid, and would flake if hit with a hammer,  I accept it as fossil

or

 

But in looking at some possibly Bison, It is hard to be certain.

Some times it is a conundrum, for sure!