Max-fossils Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Hey all, I have a tooth here, and I'm a bit confused. It comes from Hoevenen (BE), and dates from the Miocene. I'm pretty sure that it's a mako tooth, but I'm not sure what species: Isurus hastalis or Isurus oxirhynchus? Or perhaps another one? Also, how exactly can you distinguish I. hastalis from I. oxirhynchus? Best regards and have a nice Sunday! Max Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Max-fossils said: Also, how exactly can you distinguish I. hastalis from I. oxirhynchus? I have been asking Myself the same question, would love to hear the answer! Tony Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 4 hours ago, ynot said: I have been asking Myself the same question, would love to hear the answer! Tony Same for me! I have some similar teeth laying around and I would like to have a proper ID for them. The only thing I'm (pretty) sure of, is that it is indeed a C. hastalis or I. oxyrinchus, and not I. retroflexus or I. escheri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, Angie said: Same for me! I have some similar teeth laying around and I would like to have a proper ID for them. The only thing I'm (pretty) sure of, is that it is indeed a C. hastalis or I. oxyrinchus, and not I. retroflexus or I. escheri. 5 hours ago, ynot said: I have been asking Myself the same question, would love to hear the answer! Tony Hmm, seems like I really wasn't the only one with that question in my head! Maybe an expert will be able to enlighten us. By the way, @Angie, you said "C. hastalis", with which you probably mean Cosmopolitodus hastalis. But from what I understood, with the little experience I have, is that Cosmopolitodus is the old name, and that now it is considered as Isurus, right? Best regards, Max Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Max-fossils said: Hmm, seems like I really wasn't the only one with that question in my head! Maybe an expert will be able to enlighten us. By the way, @Angie, you said "C. hastalis", with which you probably mean Cosmopolitodus hastalis. But from what I understood, with the little experience I have, is that Cosmopolitodus is the old name, and that now it is considered as Isurus, right? Best regards, Max Oh really? It's so confusing for a beginner like me I thought it was Isurus at first and that it was changed to Cosmopolitodus... I read about Carcharodon too, so I always use C. hastalis, so it could be both, problem solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 Just now, Angie said: Oh really? It's so confusing for a beginner like me I thought it was Isurus at first and that it was changed to Cosmopolitodus... I read about Carcharodon too, so I always use C. hastalis, so it could be both, problem solved Well trust me, you know way more about the subject than me. In fact, maybe you are right. I found this on Google, and it has me even more confused. But at the same time, it's Wikipedia, so it may be wrong of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isurus_hastalis I don't know at all anymore what's wrong and what's right! What do you think? Best regards, Max Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, Max-fossils said: Well trust me, you know way more about the subject than me. In fact, maybe you are right. I found this on Google, and it has me even more confused. But at the same time, it's Wikipedia, so it may be wrong of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isurus_hastalis I don't know at all anymore what's wrong and what's right! What do you think? Best regards, Max Haha I don't know what to think, it's too much of a hot potato for me there a some interesting topics about this subject, these ones for instance: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, Angie said: Haha I don't know what to think, it's too much of a hot potato for me there a some interesting topics about this subject, these ones for instance 1 Thanks, you just made me even more confused! Just kidding, I appreciate your input a lot, it's just a bit too much for me to take in after a long day. All this is very interesting, and from what I understand there isn't really a definite conclusion yet. So it's still a mystery! I think I'm still gonna stick with Isurus hastalis for now though... Best regards, Max Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 I think cosmopolitodus is the new name. I think this tooth is a C. oxirhynchus. (Next part I will say inif dutch because I dont know how to say in English. Maybe Max can translate for me.) Ik denk dat omdat C. hastalis tanden volgens mij breder waren aan de kroon, wat bij deze tanden niet het geval is. But I can be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Max-fossils said: Cosmopolitodus hastalis. But from what I understood, with the little experience I have, is that Cosmopolitodus is the old name, and that now it is considered as Isurus, right? NO, It was Isurus (mako) but is now considered Carcharodon (white shark). Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 16 hours ago, gigantoraptor said: I think this tooth is a C. oxirhynchus. (Next part I will say inif dutch because I dont know how to say in English. Maybe Max can translate for me.) Ik denk dat omdat C. hastalis tanden volgens mij breder waren aan de kroon, wat bij deze tanden niet het geval is. But I can be wrong. Ja, ik kan vertalen : "I think that because C. hastalis teeth have a broader crown, which isn't the case here." Rather easy, but if it's still too hard, just use Google Translate next time! I agree that in general this is the case, but my question is: where is the limit? Here is a reconstructed hastalis jaw from Google, and as you can see some teeth are about as thin as mine. But I think too that my tooth is oxirhynchus, so I'll label it as that. My tooth looks a lot like some of the teeth from this pic from Google of oxirhynchus teeth (which are apparently also called desori ???). Thanks for the help! Best regards, Max Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 16 hours ago, ynot said: NO, It was Isurus (mako) but is now considered Carcharodon (white shark). Alright, good to know the final answer! Is oxirhynchus also considered as Carcharodon or is that one still Isurus? Thanks, Max Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, Max-fossils said: Is oxirhynchus also considered as Carcharodon or is that one still Isurus? I have only heard of hastalis as being moved to Carcharodon. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 20 hours ago, ynot said: I have only heard of hastalis as being moved to Carcharodon. Ok, thanks! Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoc Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Carcharodon hastalis or Cosmopolitodus hastalis (depending on who you ask) are in the ancestry of Carcharodon (Great White). Isurus desori (Miocene) is in the ancestry of Isurus (Mako). Isurus oxyrinchus is the extant species. The lineages split in the Eocene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 8 hours ago, Paleoc said: Carcharodon hastalis or Cosmopolitodus hastalis (depending on who you ask) are in the ancestry of Carcharodon (Great White). Isurus desori (Miocene) is in the ancestry of Isurus (Mako). Isurus oxyrinchus is the extant species. The lineages split in the Eocene. Thanks for the info! Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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