Moroccan Dino? Tooth

[TyrannosaurusRex]

So, I haven't gotten a chance to ask about this weird tooth I got in Tucson.

The root is there, and in good shape, but I don't think there is any way I can get it out of the matrix. The matrix is solid stone with the hardness of concrete, and I would probably break my tools on it.

 

Youll have to ignore the cat in the background  

continued

[TyrannosaurusRex]

I genuinely have no idea what this tooth is. I buy tons of Moroccan bones and teeth, and this is unlike any I have seen before.

[FossilDudeCO]

That is a strange little tooth!

Lets see if anyone can help!

[ynot]

Just a guess, looks sauropod to Me.

Maybe @Troodon or @Canadawest will know.

 

Tony

[jpc]

doesn't look like any dinosaur I know... but I am not hugely familiar with the Moroccan stuff.  Is there any reason to believe it is even Mesozoic?  Could be Paleogene.  

[Fossildude19]

I wonder if it could be a fish tooth?  

[LordTrilobite]

The colour reminds a lot of Khouribga, but that extends beyond the Cretaceous.

[jpc]

1 minute ago, TyrannosaurusRex said:

 

compares well to which sauropod... looks only vaguely like a sauropod tooth to me.  too bent for diplodocid and too meek for camarsaurid.  but I will say it again.. I am not familiar with the moroccoan sauropods.  I do on the other hand know some Niger teeth quite well.  

[jpc]

I still don't see it.  I am leaning towards fish.  

[LordTrilobite]

As far as I know no sauropod teeth have ever been found in the Khouribga area. There are Diplodocoid sauropods present in Kem Kem which is mid cretaceous. But the Maastrichtian Khouribga deposits are marine and as far as I know the only dinosaur remains that have been found there is a single theropod tooth. There's a tonne of shark, mosasaur and croc teeth around there though. Fish teeth are also very common but I have not come across any that resemble this one.

 

 

Edit: It appears there is a little more than just one dinosaur fossil from Khouribga.

One paper describes a few theropod teeth: https://gq.pgi.gov.pl/article/view/7958

 

Another paper describes the youngest theropod tooth in the Ouled Abdoun Basin, included in the general area known as Khouribga.

First theropod dinosaur from the Maastrichtian phosphates of Morocco

 

Not much help for identifying this tooth though sadly.

[Runner64]

I agree with jpc, I am not seeing sauropod here either.  Looks more fish to me as well.  There are several things about this tooth that make me throw sauropod out of the realm of possibilities.  The root does not look right for a sauropod tooth, it looks too fat in the middle.  Secondly, if this were a sauropod tooth, it mostly closely resembles a camarasauridae tooth.  However the family camarasauridae was only prevalent in the Jurassic and early Cretaceous so sadly that would rule this out. 

 

I think what you have is some sort of fish tooth.  Even though a dinosaur tooth might sound more interesting, don't let that take away from the fact how good of a quality tooth you have! It is in very nice condition and appears to have the root attached to it which are hard to come by.

[Runner64]

You haven't said where this tooth was found in Morocco and this is a very vague location since there are tons of fossil locations there ranging in age.  Do you know what age this is and what site this is from? 

[JohnJ]

It has similarities to pharyngeal fish teeth.

[abyssunder]

I'm wondering why the matrix is so solid?

[TyrannosaurusRex]

2 hours ago, abyssunder said:

I'm wondering why the matrix is so solid?

Me too. It's solid stone.

 

7 hours ago, Runner64 said:

You haven't said where this tooth was found in Morocco and this is a very vague location since there are tons of fossil locations there ranging in age.  Do you know what age this is and what site this is from? 

I assure you, it's nearly impossible to track down the location of a Moroccan Fossil. Lots of the people that find the fossils do it for a living, and do not share the location of their finds. All they do is take it out of the ground and sell it to dealers. (Usually dealers that either sell at Tucson/ online, or sadly, through the black market)

The only semi reliable way is to judge by the coloring, and this is a rare color for teeth. Most are red because they are found in high iron deposits known as the Kem Kem beds. The iron dyes even the roots of teeth and bones. 

 

As LordTrilobite mentioned above, the color matches the Khouribga beds, and that could potentially narrow down the list of suspects.

 

I also agree that it could be fish. Dinosaur is definitely more interesting for someone like me, but I am excited either way to learn its identity, if that is possible. 

[Troodon]

This tooth is definitely not dinosaurian.   Only two types of sauropods have been discovered in the late cretaceous of Morocco Diplo's and Titanosaurid's and both have peg shaped teeth, not comparable to yours.  It's a very cool specimen.

 

Agree with others most likely fish.  Here is an example of a Stephanodus libycus from the Khouribga beds as an example of what's out there..  Not much is known about this fish but they can get quite large.   Your tooth could be a positional one from this species or from some other critter.

 

[TyrannosaurusRex]

2 hours ago, Troodon said:

This tooth is definitely not dinosaurian.   Only two types of sauropods have been discovered in the late cretaceous of Morocco Diplo's and Titanosaurid's and both have peg shaped teeth, not comparable to yours.  It's a very cool specimen.

 

Agree with others most likely fish.  Here is an example of a Stephanodus libycus from the Khouribga beds as an example of what's out there..  Not much is known about this fish but they can get quite large.   Your tooth could be a positional one from this species or from some other critter.

 

That is very helpful! Thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

Now I have another question. I am only 16, and I wonder if it would be a wise move to donate it to a museum. Especially since it might be an undescribed species. That's why I like to buy the flats of Moroccan stuff, because you never know what treasures might be there.

[westcoast]

That is a noble suggestion. I'm sure somebody here will be able to advise. It would be good to get it to somebody who is doing active research in this area.

[Troodon]

Donation is a great thought if you're not married to the tooth but it's not easy to find the right place.  You have two things working against you.  One is what westcoast mentioned is finding a museum that is doing research in this area or one interested in tackling it.  You just dont want to donate it to any museum, that would be a waste.  The other is that the real provenance is not known, although the matrix shouts Khouribga but of what age.   I'm not a fish guy so cannot help you in where to look.  You can start by checking out Moroccan marine papers and see who's publishing them.

[TyrannosaurusRex]

7 hours ago, Troodon said:

Donation is a great thought if you're not married to the tooth but it's not easy to find the right place.  You have two things working against you.  One is what westcoast mentioned is finding a museum that is doing research in this area or one interested in tackling it.  You just dont want to donate it to any museum, that would be a waste.  The other is that the real provenance is not known, although the matrix shouts Khouribga but of what age.   I'm not a fish guy so cannot help you in where to look.  You can start by checking out Moroccan marine papers and see who's publishing them.

Thanks for the info Troodon. Do you know of any museums that might be interested? I love the fossil and I always will, but I feel like it would be best for it to be studied by someone who does Moroccan fossils rather than me keeping it to myself in my private collection.  

 

I appreciate all the insight given on this fascinating tooth.

[Troodon]

Like I said have no idea who's doing work in this area.  I've had success dealing with the ROM in Toronto so you can try contacting Dr. David Evans who is the curator of vert paleontology and see if he can give you a lead.   Sometimes they are busy and you don't hear back so no guarantee.  He typically goes to the Tucson show to buy but did not see him this year.