Anyone know what these are?

[Tilton7]

Hello

 

I have recently inherited a small collection of fossils. I was wondering whether anyone could provide me an ID for these three similar items. 

 

Best wishes

[Kane]

These look like bovid horns to me, and quite possibly sawed off. I know you said you inherited some fossils, but do you have any information as to where they were found/collected? That might help us pinpoint an ID. 

 

It is hard to judge from a picture, but I'm not entirely convinced that these are fossils, but instead horns from a contemporary animal.

[ynot]

I agree that these look recent and not fossil, but they do not look bovid to Me. 

From wikipedia...

Horns have a central, conical bony core or cornual process that grows out from the frontal bone of the skull. After 6 months of age, the bone becomes hollow and the space within it is continuous with the frontal sinuses. The surface of the bone is ridged and porous and is covered with papillary dermis that is continuous with the periosteum and epidermis which keratinised and forms the protective covering of the horn. The substance of the horn is similar to that of the hoof and is a mixture of tubules and intertubular horn. The new horn produced at the base is soft and often transparent and resembles the periople of the hoof, giving the horn a glossy appearance.

These are solid and show growth rings. Maybe some type of ivory tooth or tusk(?)

 

Tony

[Al Dente]

They remind me of walrus teeth (non-canine teeth).

[FossilDudeCO]

@Boesse possibly?

I believe he ID'd a tusk a while back.

[Carl]

Could they be tooth roots rather than tooth crowns?

[Harry Pristis]

I think Carl is right. These do resemble tusk roots, perhaps from wild boar or something similar.  Such tusks are used for decorative/adornment purposes in some cultures.  These roots may have been recovered secondarily, as an afterthought.

[Boesse]

Yup, those rugose tips are typical for adult mammal teeth. I think these are all large sperm whale teeth that have been sawn in half and polished up a bit, OR these are all teeth pulled out of a modern sperm whale jaw and worn down to the gumline in an old adult.

 

I suspect these are modern and that the latter interpretation is correct.

[Al Dente]

I still think walrus tooth is a closer match than sperm whale tooth. I searched both online and really couldn't find a modern sperm whale tooth with a root similar to this. All had a hollow pulp cavity similar to this one sliced open. There is an online pamphlet of ivory identification that compared sperm whale tooth cross section with walrus tooth cross section. Here is the comparison with the unknown tooth at the bottom.

 

 

[Al Dente]

Here is what walrus teeth look like in the skull. They are usually worn down. I've also included some isolated teeth. They are not perfect matches but seem closer to the unknown teeth than sperm whale teeth.

 

 

[Harry Pristis]

Unusual to have no consensus on these teeth.  I thought they were sawed off . . . artifacts, in fact.  If that's not the case, and it now seems so, I don't know what to think.  The three specimens have pronounced curves, unlike walrus teeth and unlike sperm whale teeth that I've seen.  (I haven't seen enough of either to have a strong opinion.)

 

Maybe the owner can tell us more about these items,  like who collected them and where he might have traveled to encounter them.

[Tilton7]

This is quite reassuring in some ways. He had a small collection of taxidermy, fossils and other oddities. He was never able to discover what this was, which is why I have listed it in the hope that one of the experts on the forum may be able to give me an ID so I can label it up.

 

He did not travel and collected at flea markets and auctions.

 

I will upload a few more photos.

 

Best wishes and many thanks for your contributions.

[Tilton7]

[Harry Pristis]

These images certainly look whalish.

[abyssunder]

All-in-one document here.

 

 

Walrus teeth.

[Harry Pristis]

Sperm whale . . . a ringer for the last image in abyssunder's post.

[Boesse]

These specimens 1) do not have globular dentine and 2) the pulp cavities of walrus tusks do not close! The teeth in the attached figures (Lee Creek IV) should demonstrate that these are well within the range of variation for Physeter. The teeth on the left are highly worn, but not worn quite as much as in the specimens in question (they're smooth, but not flat, so I don't think they're sawn in half).

 

 

[Al Dente]

7 hours ago, Boesse said:

 

These specimens 1) do not have globular dentine and 2) the pulp cavities of walrus tusks do not close! 

 

 

These two points show that the teeth in question are not walrus tusks but no one here has made that claim. I think these are non tusk teeth from a walrus. Walrus Tusks do have globular dentine but their teeth do not. Walrus Tusks do have pulp cavities, their teeth do not. The photos in my previous reply clearly show walrus teeth without pulp cavities and without globular dentine.

[abyssunder]

Walrus teeth may contain secondary dentine (SD) core in the center of the primary dentine, see Fig.12 in my post.

[Carl]

Non-tusk walrus teeth are pretty small in comparison to these things, in my opinion. But I admit I may be being fooled by some of the photos.

[ynot]

4 hours ago, Al Dente said:

I think these are non tusk teeth from a walrus.

As Carl has said, I do not see these being walrus, because the teeth in question are way to large for a walrus's teeth which are only 5 cm. according to Your first reference.

 

I also agree that some sort of a scale other than fingers would be nice.

[Al Dente]

10 minutes ago, ynot said:

As Carl has said, I do not see these being walrus, because the teeth in question are way to large for a walrus's teeth which are only 5 cm. according to Your first reference.

 

I also agree that some sort of a scale other than fingers would be nice.

 

Could be too large. If these are sperm whale teeth they are from a very old individual because of the extremely thick cementum and the pulp cavity has completely filled.

[ynot]

4 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

 

Could be too large. If these are sperm whale teeth they are from a very old individual because of the extremely thick cementum and the pulp cavity has completely filled.

I can agree with that.

[Boesse]

Walrus postcanine teeth are only like 1.5-2 cm in diameter. All walrus individuals have globular dentine; if a tusk is sectioned near the tip it may be absent, but near the root there will always be a core of globular dentine present. For more, refer to the classic monograph by Francis Fay (1982): http://fwspubs.org/doi/abs/10.3996/nafa.74.0001?code=ufws-site

 

I've attached an image of what walrus teeth look like from Fay 1982.

[doushantuo]

Link greatly appreciated,Boesse