Monica Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Hello once again! I've finally tried to identify the shark teeth that Ken (@digit) sent my way from the Peace River in Florida. Please let me know of any errors that I've made (I'm sure I've made many!), and I'd also love some help in identifying some of the more broken specimens that will appear in the final picture. Thanks so much! Monica PS - For labeling purposes, should I label all of these as being from the Pliocene since they are marine fossils from the Peace River, FL? As well, would it be possible to identify these little guys down to genus or even species? Thanks again! Photo #1: Sand tiger? Photo #2: Lemon? Photo #3: Tiger? Photo #4: Snaggletooth? Photo #5: Mako? Photo #6: Megalodon? Photo #7: Stingray teeth? Photo #8: Unknown - please help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 No 7 are ray teeth, but mylobates not dystalus. I will let the shark tooth experts do the rest. 2 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Nice teeth! I'm not an expert but I'm gonna give it a try The one on the bottom left corner of the first picture doesn't look very sand tiger to me, it has serrations right? The second tooth in the lower row in the second picture reminds me of a Physogaleus contortus (tiger shark), but I might be off The only snaggletooth (Hemipristis serra) in the fourth picture is the one on the upper left corner, the others look like Carcharhinus sp. to me, just like the teeth #1, #2, #3, #4, #6, #8, #10 in the last picture. The genus of the tiger shark teeth is Galeocerdo (and the name is probably Galeocerdo cuvier), the genus name of the sand tiger shark teeth is Carcharias. The species name of the lemon shark teeth is Negaprion eurybathrodon. You're right with the stingray plates and the meg For labeling, I would use Miocene - Pliocene (see this topic): 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Angie said: You're right with the stingray plates Not stingray. Cownose ray. This is a stingray tooth... 2 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, ynot said: Not stingray. Cownose ray. This is a stingray tooth... I'm sorry, didn't know that, thanks! Have been calling them stingray mouth plates for ages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 44 minutes ago, Angie said: Nice teeth! I'm not an expert but I'm gonna give it a try The one on the bottom left corner of the first picture doesn't look very sand tiger to me, it has serrations right? The second tooth in the lower row in the second picture reminds me of a Physogaleus contortus (tiger shark), but I might be off The only snaggletooth (Hemipristis serra) in the fourth picture is the one on the upper left corner, the others look like Carcharhinus sp. to me, just like the teeth #1, #2, #3, #4, #6, #8, #10 in the last picture. The genus of the tiger shark teeth is Galeocerdo (and the name is probably Galeocerdo cuvier), the genus name of the sand tiger shark teeth is Carcharias. The species name of the lemon shark teeth is Negaprion eurybathrodon. You're right with the stingray plates and the meg For labeling, I would use Miocene - Pliocene (see this topic): Hi Angie! The one on the bottom left corner of the first picture does indeed have serrations - I had to zoom in on my picture to see them, but they're there! What do you think it is, then? The bottom row of the second picture has at least three teeth that have serrations (which I can now see by zooming in on my picture) - the three on the left definitely have serrations but I'm having a hard time seeing serrations on the one that's in the bottom row on the right-hand side (although the serrations may be very worn down). Would that likely make them tiger shark if they possess these serrations? Also, the one on the right-hand side of the top row of that picture seems to be serrated close to the root - do lemon shark teeth show serrations at this location on the tooth? Re: the snaggletooth section - I suspected that the first one might be the only real snaggletooth, but I just didn't know what to do with the others - they didn't look as angled as a tiger shark, so I didn't know where to place them As for tiger sharks...you've given two different names for them (Physogaleus contortus and Galeocerdo sp.) - are "tiger sharks" part of two different genera? Thanks again for your help! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Hey hi Monica, There are several sharks teeth that have serrations. I think some of Your "snaggletooth" pieces are dusky or bull shark teeth. Have You seen this site? http://elasmo.com/ 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, Monica said: Hi Angie! The one on the bottom left corner of the first picture does indeed have serrations - I had to zoom in on my picture to see them, but they're there! What do you think it is, then? The bottom row of the second picture has at least three teeth that have serrations (which I can now see by zooming in on my picture) - the three on the left definitely have serrations but I'm having a hard time seeing serrations on the one that's in the bottom row on the right-hand side (although the serrations may be very worn down). Would that likely make them tiger shark if they possess these serrations? Also, the one on the right-hand side of the top row of that picture seems to be serrated close to the root - do lemon shark teeth show serrations at this location on the tooth? Re: the snaggletooth section - I suspected that the first one might be the only real snaggletooth, but I just didn't know what to do with the others - they didn't look as angled as a tiger shark, so I didn't know where to place them As for tiger sharks...you've given two different names for them (Physogaleus contortus and Galeocerdo sp.) - are "tiger sharks" part of two different genera? Thanks again for your help! Monica Hey Monica, I would say Carcharhinus sp. for the one on the first picture then The ones on the second picture don't look like tiger shark teeth to me (except for maybe the second one in the lower row), but they could be Carcharhinus sp. instead of lemon shark teeth (I yet have a hard time distinguishing them unfortunately). Lemon shark teeth can show serrations I thought there was some discussion about the names of tiger shark teeth; whether or not aduncus and contortus are the same species and to which genus contortus belongs: Physogaleus or Galeocerdo, so I can't give you a decent answer with my little knowledge unfortunately Kind regards, Angie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Hi all! After some input from various forum members (thanks @Angie and @ynot!), I've looked at these teeth a little more closely and I'm going to try to reorganize them tomorrow (hopefully!) and then take some new pictures to get your thoughts once again. Thanks, and have a great night! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britishcanuk Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 The tiger shark tooth on the bottom right looks like a hammerhead. most of the snaggle tooth photo look like bull sharks or something similar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 14 hours ago, ynot said: Not stingray. Cownose ray. Yes not (stingray) as Tony noted. These have a mouthplate made up of the cute little teeth with the two-legged roots that Tony pictured above which mosaic together to form a solid plate. But I wouldn't call your elongated plates "cownose ray" either. Cownose rays are in the family Rhinopteridae (literally "nose-wings" ) cool small species with a double-bumped head reminiscent of a cow's schnoz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoptera The elongated ray plates come from a different family of Myliobatiformes (Myliobatidatae, in fact). In (somewhat) common parlance we call these myliobatid tooth plates or just eagle ray tooth plates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_ray Agree with much of what others have posted about the other teeth (e.g. the well-spotted serrations on the one in the Sand Tiger group) and the Snaggletooth (Hemipristis) being the one with the exceptional serrations. Glad you are having so much fun with the bags of Peace River material I tossed in as packing material. You and Viola need to make a trip down to South Florida sometime when it is good and cold at your latitude and we'll go out and find you lots more Peace River material to puzzle over. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 3 hours ago, digit said: But I wouldn't call your elongated plates "cownose ray" either. When I went to Aurora North Carolina I got an identification chart from the museum there. This chart id's the style of tooth that Monica showed (left side of Her picture) as a Cownose ray. It makes no mention of Eagle rays. Also, see here. (fourth page)...http://elasmo.com/refs/slides/ss_myliobatid.html I think both species have similar plate tooth. If pushed into it, I would say Monica's tooth plates are one of each. The left one being a cownose ray and the one on the right is the eagle ray. Regards, Tony 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Rhinoptera (cownose rays) to have very similar tooth plates. I don't know that I'd be able to tell the difference. The curved ones in Monica's photo above are likely Aetobatis (eagle ray). I'm working with a fossil shark tooth expert from UF on a project and he identified some of the fossil material we collected from a waterway near the Peace River as Aetobatus sp., Dasyatis sp. and Myliobatidae with no particular mention of Rhinopteridae (cownose rays). I'll have to send him an email to see what he thinks. I see photos online from the FLMNH but the pictured specimens are from the Gatun Formation of Pamana: http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/panama-pire/fossils-of-panama/rhinoptera_sp.htm The page above mentions that Rhinoptera is currently known from the Pacific but we have a Cownose Ray extant in Florida (Rhinoptera bonasus). I've seen this species in the mangroves in the Dania Beach area just east of the Fort Lauderdale Airport. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Hello once again, Ken (@digit) et al.! Well, I've reorganized the shark teeth and what follows is my second round of guesses - I look forward to everyone's input!!! Thanks in advance! Monica My only snaggletooth! (Although I think there were more in the bag, but I let my daughter Viola have first pick of the lot so she must have grabbed them!) The one on the right is broken, so I can't be sure that it's a tiger shark - I'm a little doubtful since the "shoulder" seems to be longer and has more serrations than the other two teeth - please let me know if you think I should place it elsewhere - thanks! Neither of these teeth seem to have serrations (unless they are so worn down that I can't see/feel them!), and that, coupled with the crown appearing to be at a 90 degree angle to the root has led me to classify them as lemon shark - what do you think? These were a bit tricky for me since they seem to be worn down, so I had trouble determining if there are serrations present or if broken enamel is giving the crowns a bumpy texture, but they seemed to fit the general shape of sand tiger, including a fairly deep nutrient groove along the centre of the root of each tooth, so that's where I put them. Thoughts? There are very worn serrations on this specimen, and there is definitely a "broad chevron" that's visible, so what do you think - megalodon or chubutensis? I'm also wondering which genus is the correct one: Carcharodon or Carcharocles? (By the way - if it can't be decided that it's a meg or a chub, that's totally fine - I'm okay with just labeling it with the genus.) There are no serrations on these teeth, so I was thinking giant white shark? Again, though - which genus is the one I should be using: Cosmopolitodus or Carcharodon? I believe that I can see/feel serrations on all of these teeth, leading me to my identification of Carcharhinus sp. I've read that it's very difficult to narrow this group of sharks down to species based on teeth alone, so I'm happy just labeling them with their genus (assuming that they are all indeed part of the same genus!). Please help with these ones if you can - thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 13, 2017 Author Share Posted March 13, 2017 bump? Also, after looking at these teeth with the aid of a 10X loupe, I can't for the life of me see serrations on the crown of the teeth circled below - is it still appropriate to identify them as Carcharhinus sp.? I believe that I can see serrations (some very faint) on all the rest of the teeth tentatively identified as Carcharhinus sp. Also, if someone/anyone out there can confirm or correct me in my attempts at identifying the whole lot of teeth from the Peace River, FL then that would be great! Thanks so much!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishconner10 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I can say it is hammerhead or sharp nose and I think the red circle may also be sharpnose if there is a groove on the root 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishconner10 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Hammerhead and sharpnose look the same to my knowledge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishconner10 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 And mako for the other one seems right 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Thanks to everyone for your help! I've labeled the ray tooth plates as "Myliobatidae" rather than commit to a genus since there is some disagreement regarding the identity of some of the plates that I have. Both eagle rays and cownose rays are part of this family so I think this is the safest bet. I can definitely see a notch in the tooth circled in red above, as well as a faint groove in the root, so I've placed this tooth in with the other "unknown" tooth that has been suggested might be hammerhead - I've simply labeled them with the genus (Sphyrna sp.). I still cannot see any serrations in the tooth circled in blue above so I've placed it with the sand tiger shark teeth (Carcharias sp.). The second "unknown" tooth I've labeled as mako (Isurus sp.) since it has no serrations and seems pretty robust compared to the sand tiger shark teeth. My (hopefully!) last question for you is what to do with the tooth circled in yellow below. Should I label it as giant white (Cosmopolitodus/Carcharodon sp.) or mako (Isurus sp.)? The uncircled tooth has been given to my daughter, and she doesn't care about identifying it, so no need to tackle that one Thanks so much!!! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishconner10 Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 On 3/18/2017 at 10:03 AM, Monica said: Thanks to everyone for your help! I've labeled the ray tooth plates as "Myliobatidae" rather than commit to a genus since there is some disagreement regarding the identity of some of the plates that I have. Both eagle rays and cownose rays are part of this family so I think this is the safest bet. I can definitely see a notch in the tooth circled in red above, as well as a faint groove in the root, so I've placed this tooth in with the other "unknown" tooth that has been suggested might be hammerhead - I've simply labeled them with the genus (Sphyrna sp.). I still cannot see any serrations in the tooth circled in blue above so I've placed it with the sand tiger shark teeth (Carcharias sp.). The second "unknown" tooth I've labeled as mako (Isurus sp.) since it has no serrations and seems pretty robust compared to the sand tiger shark teeth. My (hopefully!) last question for you is what to do with the tooth circled in yellow below. Should I label it as giant white (Cosmopolitodus/Carcharodon sp.) or mako (Isurus sp.)? The uncircled tooth has been given to my daughter, and she doesn't care about identifying it, so no need to tackle that one Thanks so much!!! Monica Mako because there is no visible serrations and that is a tell tale sign of mist mako teeth (I've heard of a mako species that has serrated teeth but very uncommon and not in the Peace river) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoc Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Ray plates (from Elasmo.com) Eagle Ray Aetobatus narinari Cow nosed ray Rhinoptera bonasus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoc Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Photo #1: 1-3, 5 Sand Tiger, 4 prob lower bull shark Photo #2: 1-7 various Grey sharks (Carcharhinus sp.) too incomplete to further ID. 8 - Lemon shark Photo #3: 1-2 Tiger shark, 3 possible Great Hammerhead (rare) Photo #4: 1 Snaggletooth, 2-4 Bull shark, 5-6 poss Caribbean reef?, 7 probable Brown shark, 8 poss Dusky shark? Photo #5: 1-2 Ancestral Great White (Carcharodon or Cosmopolitodus - depending on who you ask hastalis) Photo #6: Carcharocles megalodon Photo #7: See previous posting about ray plates Photo #8: 1-4 Bull Sharks, 5-6, 8-10 various grey sharks, 7, 12 too damaged to ID, 11 Sand Tiger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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