JohnBrian

Lance Formation Micro Tooth

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I have some Lance formation matrix I purchased on that auction site and I have been slowly breaking it down. This is one of my finds. I don't have a scale small enough to measure it against so  . . . It is a little smaller than the head of a pin, flea speck. I did a Google image search on Lance Formation micro teeth but came up with nothing. 

 

The photos were taken with my Nikon point an shoot through the eyepiece of my microscope. These photos are the best I can do.

 

 

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I love going through Lance matrix so many cool items to find.

 

I don't know what the tooth is but the first thing that I saw was a worn Thescelosaurus tooth .  The ridges on the crown are what struck me as well as the shape of the crown and root position.  Now I have no idea if it's embryonic or I'm  way off base but a start :trilosurprise:

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More than I had before! Thank you Troodon!

 

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That is wicked cool!  :envy:    I love it!! 

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I forgot to ask yesterday:

 

Does anyone think the dished out section is supposed to be there or is it a damaged? Since the exact species is somewhat up in the air this may be an unanswerable question but I have to ask anyway. :headscratch:

 

 

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Good explanation by Susan.   The dished out section does not appear natural but no idea how it got there before or after fossilization.   What I cannot explain is what I outlined in red.  It appears to be regrowth but not sure, looks like a lip.

 

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Now if I continue to go to my first wacky theory it's common for Thescelosaurus teeth to have damage to the labial side of the crown.

Cretaceous-Thescelosaurus-Dinosaur-Tooth-9b.thumb.jpg.9472ac32404d08e16daa7866926717cd.jpgHCF03B.jpg.c03aa07c828b03798ad0f2f5509eb697.jpg

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I kind of thought it was damage. I have done lots of web searches and I have seen similar areas of loss in many other Thescelosaurus teeth so I wanted to verify.

 

Troodon:

I can't check the tooth right now (getting ready to fix dinner) so I'll check out the bit you highlighted later today or tomorrow.

 

Thanks Susan & Troodon!

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16 minutes ago, JohnBrian said:

I kind of thought it was damage. I have done lots of web searches and I have seen similar areas of loss in many other Thescelosaurus teeth so I wanted to verify.

 

Troodon:

I can't check the tooth right now (getting ready to fix dinner) so I'll check out the bit you highlighted later today or tomorrow.

 

Thanks Susan & Troodon!

 

Some that damage is feeding wear but it's a cool detective mystery.   Like you've said probably never know but it's fun anyway.   I wonder if teeth were present in embryonic herbivores.

 

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6 minutes ago, Troodon said:

 

Some that damage is feeding wear but it's a cool detective mystery.   Like you've said probably never know but it's fun anyway.   I wonder if teeth were present in embryonic herbivores.

 

 

Considering the tooth is flea-speck-size I'd reckon that is the case! Or at least new born (ok, hatched!). Chomped down on his first piece of plant & hit a rock!

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Got an answer, yes both functional and replacement teeth exist.  Studies were done on Mongolian ceratopsian.

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11 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Got an answer, yes both functional and replacement teeth exist.  Studies were done on Mongolian ceratopsian.

 

Thanks!

 

"Learning is Good."-- Emil Faber

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Regardless what the answer is its nice to see that micro dino teeth exist.  So I found this very interesting, here is the paper on embryonic teeth and some images included in the document.  Check out the scale on the images.

 

Screenshot_20170322-081801.thumb.jpg.f55221c9b7736dc7453a8ac873f9a5f9.jpgScreenshot_20170322-082000.thumb.jpg.041096192946e4b53730f6619bb78d3f.jpg

 

PNAS-2017-Erickson-540-5.pdf

 

 

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Nice tooth! Maybe someone will step up and do a study on micro material from the Lance Formation-that would be interesting :)

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17 minutes ago, Jesuslover340 said:

Nice tooth! Maybe someone will step up and do a study on micro material from the Lance Formation-that would be interesting :)

Richard Estes did the definitive paper on non-mammals in something like 1963, but it is weak on actual dinosaur teeth, and Bill Clemens did three volumes on the mammals in the later 60's and 70's.  All published by UC Berkeley.  There is indeed more to be done now that many of the dinosaur material has actually been looked at in more detail (see Acheoraptor and Nanotyrannus as a f'rinstance).  Otherwise there are various papers all scattered about with info on other micros from the Lance and Hell Creek.  

 

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Yes research is needed,  in fact I was chatting with Susan from PA and came to the conclusion that the only way we will definitely know what this is to put it the hands of someone who will study it. 

@jpc a book I've used that you may be familiar with us the Vertebrate Microfossils Assemblages.  It's a compilation of papers including those from the Lance Fm.  Great reference book for those that want to add to their reference library.

 

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Yes, great book... I reviewed this for an online publication and got myself a free copy for that.  Wonder if that review is anywhere to be found?  Also it features at least one fossil from my collection.  I totally forgot about this one.  Thanks, troodon.  AND.. the cover art is by workmate Russel Hawley, based on the sliightly-older-than-Lance Mesa Verde Fm of west of Casper.   

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Oh that's extra awesome to have one if your teeth included.  Very cool.

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Yeah, Mesa Verde Fm Tyrannosaur... you know the one... Gorgosaurus, Albertosaurus or Daspletosaurus.  It gets a mention, but no photo.  

I looked for my review... not there.  

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On 3/22/2017 at 1:02 PM, Troodon said:

Yes research is needed,  in fact I was chatting with Susan from PA and came to the conclusion that the only way we will definitely know what this is to put it the hands of someone who will study it. 

 

I wouldn't have a problem donating it as long as it will be studied & not filed in some museum's drawers (as in a cabinet, NOT underwear :P).

 

Thanks for the paper!

On 3/22/2017 at 1:02 PM, Troodon said:

Vertebrate Microfossils Assemblages

 

I'll have to keep an eye out for this book. I like micro fossils, but I do prefer fossils that are large enough to be viewed & handled without needing to resort to tweezers & clay/rodico & microscopes!

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18 minutes ago, JohnBrian said:

 

 

I'll have to keep an eye out for this book. I like micro fossils, but I do prefer fossils that are large enough to be viewed & handled without needing to resort to tweezers & clay/rodico & microscopes!

The definition of micro fossils is anything small like troodon or Dromaeosaurid teeth not big bones . Nothing  to do with microscopes.

@jpc  know anyone to look at tooth

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I do... But it may need some better pix.

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