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besom hill find id


salvo1989s

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hi guys, i went some weeks ago in besom hill ,oldham uk to looking for something and the only thing that i found was a big block of stone that i splitted today. inside was almost full of this things. what they are? 

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According to this website, Besom Hill is Upper Carboniferous in age. 

It also notes that goniatites are frequently found there.

 

I think I can see simple sutures on the item, so goniatite sounds correct.

 

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Neat finds - those should prep out nicely. :) 

Regards, 

 

EDIT: This book on Google Books mentions the  genus Goniatites reticulatus and Goniatites gibsoni

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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Goniatite or ammonite, we all agree to say it's a cephalopod, you well see the siphon on the first photo.

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I agree with Tim and Daniel, Upper Carboniferous goniatites for sure and they look like Gastrioceras.

Tarquin

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Hi.  Here are some Gastrioceras listeri goniatites which I found at another site.  The Listeri marine band can be found at Besom hill so I think your fossil is almost certainly Gastrioceras listeri.  Unfortunately they are almost impossible to prep so it would probably be best to leave it as it is.

 

 

Daniel

 

 

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1 minute ago, Strepsodus said:

...  Unfortunately they are almost impossible to prep so it would probably be best to leave it as it is.

Daniel

 

 

Why are they almost impossible to prep?

Are they very fragile?

 

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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34 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

 

Why are they almost impossible to prep?

Are they very fragile?

 

Hi.  The matrix seems to stick to the shell.  Also there are a lot of faults in the concretions which often run through the fossils.  Some of the goniatites from the marine band are filled with calcite and others are filled with the same material as the concretion.  The concretions which contain goniatites with calcite are usually full of crushed goniatites.  Some of them are still fully 3d but the centres of a lot of them are crushed.  The goniatites which are filled with the same material as the concretion are usually better preserved but the centres are very hard to prepare.  There seems to be 3 main types of concretion in the Marine band- the ones with the goniatites filled with calcite, the ones with goniatites filled with the same material as the concretion and a more sandy type of concretion which contains a lot more well preserved fossils though the concretions are much harder to find.

 

 

 

Daniel

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2 minutes ago, Strepsodus said:

Hi.  The matrix seems to stick to the shell.  Also there are a lot of faults in the concretions which often run through the fossils.  Some of the goniatites from the marine band are filled with calcite and others are filled with the same material as the concretion.  The concretions which contain goniatites with calcite are usually full of crushed goniatites.  Some of them are still fully 3d but the centres of a lot of them are crushed.  The goniatites which are filled with the same material as the concretion are usually better preserved but the centres are very hard to prepare.  There seems to be 3 main types of concretion in the Marine band- the ones with the goniatites filled with calcite, the ones with goniatites filled with the same material as the concretion and a more sandy type of concretion which contains a lot more well preserved fossils though the concretions are much harder to find.

 

 

 

Daniel

 

Thanks for the answer, Daniel. :) 

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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Hi.  I forgot to say some of the concretions contain both goniatites filled with calcite and goniatites filled with the same material as the concretions.

 

 

Daniel

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It is good to know the presence of dimorphism in Gastrioceras listeri, that's why there are variations in form within the same species.

 

Gastrioceras.jpg.b7a60a564231d44b45ba6b53b6918a77.jpg

excerpt from R. A. Davis et al. 1996. Mature modifications and sexual dimorphism. Ammonoid Paleobiology. Volume 13 of Topics in Geobiology; Chapter 13.

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I think this document would be helpful, so, I'll put it here for further reference : E. Hull, J. W. Salter. 1864. The Geology Of The Country Around Oldham, Including Manchester And Its Suburbs. Memoirs Of The Geological Survey Of Great Britain And Of The Museum Of Practical Geology.

 

A lot of fossils, including Goniatites species, are mentioned in this old book; Goniatites listeri  - appears in his old name.

" We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. "

Thomas Mann

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