Deltadromeus Agilis tooth?

[AndOe]

Hi all,

 

New here and to the fossil collecting world--- since I was little I always loved dinosaurs and traces of the past and this is probably some of the farthest back we can reach... so, finally now looking to start up a collection with a good first dinosaur tooth. Not going to spend T-Rex money or anything like that at first so my range would be for a more common type of tooth but still in nice collectable condition.

Been looking at several types... like Charcharodontosaurus, Allosaurus, possibly any of the so-called "raptor" types and this is one I've come up with that appears to be a good example of the latter;

 

The description goes:

 

"Pristine example of the rare giant raptor tooth,This tooth is pristine,beautiful enamel,serrated and complete with no repair or restoration.Tooth measures 45 mm Mid-Cretaceous Albian Age 

Kem-Kem Basin, South of Taouz , K’Sar es Souk Province , Morocco"

 

To my newbie eyes it appears to be in nice condition and possibly also quite large for this species (?)... what do you think? Does the species label ring true and would this be a good starter? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Andreas

[Fossildude19]

Tried to brighten and sharpen the images some. 

 

      

 

Photos are a bit blurry, yet. 

 

[Troodon]

Welcome to the forum

 

We do not know what Deltadromeus teeth look like because only postcranial material has been found.  Dealers are quick to identify them but it's a guess.  Currently the only raptor material we see from the Kem Kem are occasional Dromaeosaurid teeth but are difficult to ID.  Deltadromeus is not a raptor but currently thought to be a Neovenatoridae

 

The tooth you posted is extremely nice.  I would purchase it and in time we may know what these teeth look like and it may be one. Don't get hung up with a name it's the specimen that counts.  We have little understanding of theropod material in the Kem Kem.  Names continue to evolve with discoveries.   

 

Here is some information I've put together for the Kem Kem theropod teeth

 

 

 

[AndOe]

Thank you both very much for the quick input and general assistance. I know the photos that are provided are a bit on the blurry side so thank you, Fossildude19, for improving on them a bit!

 

OK. So, Troodon; if I understand you correctly... there is no way of saying what species this would be from due to no teeth ever having been found in situ (attached to an identifiable Deltadromeus cranium/jaw etc.), only teeth that have been shed or the like.... correct? I will certainly get to reading that thread you linked to, thanks for the heads up... I am sure it will be very interesting and enlightening!

 

Also glad to hear that I managed to pick one that would be considered to be of high quality by experienced collectors... at the very least it seems I am on the right path. I think the tooth is priced at the higher end, possibly, but you obviously pay for quality in this field of collecting just like in any other...

 

Of course this would be a very subjective topic but, how would you rate this type of tooth to, say, an Allosaurus or Carcharodontosaurus tooth in the same price range (around €200, give or take)? I am guessing I would have to take lower quality compared to this is the same price range?

[Troodon]

56 minutes ago, AndOe said:

 

 

OK. So, Troodon; if I understand you correctly... there is no way of saying what species this would be from due to no teeth ever having been found in situ (attached to an identifiable Deltadromeus cranium/jaw etc.), only teeth that have been shed or the like.... correct? I will certainly get to reading that thread you linked to, thanks for the heads up... I am sure it will be very interesting and enlightening!

 

 

 

Correct, only isolated shed teeth.  However rooted teeth may be around and found where skulls have deteriorated.  The illustration below shows what was found with the holotype.  Very few associated skeletons have been found in the Kem Kem from any theropod, it was a very dynamic region making preservation of entire animals difficult why so little is understood.

[Troodon]

47 minutes ago, AndOe said:

Of course this would be a very subjective topic but, how would you rate this type of tooth to, say, an Allosaurus or Carcharodontosaurus tooth in the same price range (around €200, give or take)? I am guessing I would have to take lower quality compared to this is the same price range?

 

Forgot you last question, very very subjective and I would rate equivalent size/quality teeth as follows  Allosaurus by far #1 because of rarity.  Kem Kem material is everywhere and this type of tooth is less available than Carcharodontosaurid's but your valuation   seems high to me.

[AndOe]

Thank you very much again! I am currently reading through the thread you pointed to and created and it's very interesting indeed!

 

Yes, I already had some indication that this particular tooth was listed at a high price but, then again, of good quality... thank you for the input on that. I don't even know if it's still available, waiting for an answer.  The others I've been looking at are, as mentioned, Carchodontosaurus around the same price but I seem to struggle a bit finding one with an acceptable blend of good quality to price and then some size... and the Allosaurus ones I've looked at have frequently been in matrix, something which I am not too sure how realistically should affect price---  these were also pricier but I really like the look for possible display. A lot to learn here, for sure...

[zekky]

It doesn't look like Carcharodontosaurus, but without a closeup of the serrations I can't tell if it something else. Plus Troodon is right, we don't know what Deltadromeus really is. I do highly suspect that there is a Neovenator dinosaur in Kem Kem. 

[AndOe]

Appears this one has been posted here earlier, coincidentally in Troodon's thread (the one linked to earlier)--- here are the photos

[Troodon]

Very nice tooth, great serrations .  Definitely not a Carcharodontosaurid. 

[AndOe]

Thanks again for the help--- I'm not hearing back so I can only surmise that it's no longer available. At any rate, I think I might postpone getting my first higher quality dino tooth and instead focus on familiarizing my self with the various types through the lower cost options first, plus reading up a bit.... I just dion't think my budget at this point will do so I'll have to save up some and come back stronger. I ordered myself a cheaper Spinosaurus tooth in matrix, from Kem-Kem "Tegana formation", just now to quench my thirst and have something to look at and study in the meantime. Not complete but as long as it's not messed with in any way I'm happy... maybe a newbie thing but I'm fascinated with seeing these prehistoric remains in situ, as they were found (hopefully).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Troodon]

@AndOe Too bad on the other tooth but this one is a good starter tooth to study with.   I  just revamped my first page of the Kem Kem post I attached above.  Check it out.  The Tegana formation you mention has been used but is not what current paleontologist are putting in their publications.  That information was added in the changes to the first page but the Kem Kem beds are actually 3 formations.

[AndOe]

Yes, that was my thinking as well--- I just regard this as a starter and something to look at while I accumulate knowledge and save up some more money for something I'd actually be satisfied with. Spinosaurus appears to be a fascinating and rather terrifying dinosaur though! Does the tooth and matrix it sits in look alright (not messed with)? I guess it's nothing to worry about on such low cost specimens but thought I'd ask to make sure anyway...

 

Will have a look at your update, read through it all earlier and it was very informative!

 

I'll probably up my initial budget 3x or so, maybe a bit more, to get a tooth I really want a bit further down the line. I'm thinking possibly a bigger Charcadontosaurus or a nice complete Spinosaurus.

[Susan from PA]

Nice Spino tooth!  I love the fact that it's still in the matrix.    Very cool!  

 

The tooth that you were looking at was really nice.  More like it will come along when you are ready.  

 

As as a fellow collector of dinosaur material, the best advice I can give you is to buy the best quality specimens that you can afford.  Good quality specimens cost more, but they also hold their value, where poorer quality ones may not hold their value as well.  I always think quality over quantity when it comes to dinosaur teeth especially.  

[Troodon]

49 minutes ago, AndOe said:

Yes, that was my thinking as well--- I just regard this as a starter and something to look at while I accumulate knowledge and save up some more money for something I'd actually be satisfied with. Spinosaurus appears to be a fascinating and rather terrifying dinosaur though! Does the tooth and matrix it sits in look alright (not messed with)? I guess it's nothing to worry about on such low cost specimens but thought I'd ask to make sure anyway...

 

Will have a look at your update, read through it all earlier and it was very informative!

 

I'll probably up my initial budget 3x or so, maybe a bit more, to get a tooth I really want a bit further down the line. I'm thinking possibly a bigger Charcadontosaurus or a nice complete Spinosaurus.

 

The tooth and matrix look fine, typical Kem Kem matrix.   Let me also echo what Susan said, save and purchase good specimens when you are ready.  You can always trade up with those.  Not sure if you have fossil shows or clubs in your country but take advantage of them if they exist.  Browse online dealers to get familiar with them but do not accept their ID's offhand.   Good luck we are here to help.

[AndOe]

Thank you very much for chiming in, Susan! This has really been decades coming considering I was crazy about prehistoric history and animals, dinosaurs in particular, as a young boy--- and first getting around to it now and seeing what's actually out there has been a revelation for sure. As a kid I would never have dreamed of there ever being a chance of having a part of one of these beasts in my hand, ever! Being in my collecting infancy, so to speak, I really love seeing these specimens in their original matrix... it just gives me so much more context when it comes to the actual recovery... plus it looks aesthetically pleasing as well. The tooth appears to be missing its tip but at the price and considering it somewhat hefty age I'm able to look past this for now. An interesting and cool looking object for study it is, the higher quality items will surely come later on knowing my ways of collecting in many other fields.

[AndOe]

Thank you again, Troodon --- I'm not sure about fossil shows or clubs but will certainly look into it... afaik there's not a whole lot, if any at all, of the type of fossils we are looking at here in my country, due to the general geological nature of our bedrock, but mainly smaller organisms, plant and marine fossils in select areas. I suspect I will be looking into nearby areas of interest as we're nearing summer again, maybe even an expedition looking for some if I can.

Quality will certainly be my priority over quantity and knowing my way around dealers in other fields of collecting that point is also duly noted, will ask here whenever I feel it's needed for sure.

 

Again, appreciate all the good advice and warm welcome for a brand spanking new member--- makes me feel all that much better venturing into this relatively new area of collecting!