Found while digging trench. Large Fossil.

[ColdwaterShale]

Hi, I am brand new to forum. Signed up because of my sudden interest in fossils. I unearthed one in Michigan this past week 3/22, while digging a trench.  I need to find someone that can verify and advise me how to protect it.  I believe it contains bone fragment. One large portion of bone is removable. From what I am learning on the fly, it is a true form fossil, cast in place.  I believe it is a complete animal skull.  I will add any necessary details soon and pictures when I compress file size.  

[Peace river rat]

Welcome to the forum, cant see much there, can you post more pics? Not really seeing a fossil there. Keep digging, the earth is full of treasures!

[Jeffrey P]

That looks like a pointy rock. More close up pictures at different angles would confirm whether it is a fossil or not or whether or not it contains fossils.

[ynot]

Welcome to TFF!

We will need better pictures from more angles to be able to tell what You have. Also a more accurate location would help, city county state.

I am pretty sure it is not a skull though.

Tony

 

They beat this slow typer.

[ColdwaterShale]

Thanks.  I need to upload from a pc, but these from phone are some quick pics i can lay down. The portion of what looks like mud, viewing upper right, is actually part of cast. It extends deeply into cast.  I will add more detail soon.  Thanks for looking

[ynot]

Does not look like bone. Maybe just a suggestively shaped rock.

[Troodon]

Welcome to the forum.  I'm also having problems seeing bone or a skull maybe additional photos may help .  Skulls typically are not a solid mass but made of very thin bone elements, very different than what I'm seeing.

[ColdwaterShale]

I appreciate responses.  Now I will add resized photos of better quality.  These are of the bone areas.  They are brittle and porous.  Many areas are flaky.  The first photo shows a section that can be pulled away.  it is interlocked into the surrounding area.  The 2nd photo is showing neck attachment bone.  The 3rd is the underside.  Hopefully resolution is good enough to see streaking of tissue through cast. Definite layering of some type of tissue in the streak.  also very flaky.   Also the wishbone cartilage like feature in the mouth end. 

I found it in a trench exactly 4 ft down completely imbedded in clay.  It is Branch County Michigan. 

 

[ColdwaterShale]

I will let that set for awhile.  The contours and proportions are very life like IMO--to what Im not sure. 

[ynot]

This looks like a piece of decomposing limestone.

The rusty looking areas are iron concretions that have wethered to look porus.

Definitely not bone.

Keep looking, fossils are in Your area.

Tony

[ColdwaterShale]

Would there be a definitive way to confirm that it is not a fossil? Thinking about a microscope. I have dug alot of rock out of the ground and never found one with all these features.  The streaking is what has me curious. And the inclusions of bone/iron/whatever.  

 

[ynot]

7 hours ago, ColdwaterShale said:

Would there be a definitive way to confirm that it is not a fossil? Thinking about a microscope. I have dug alot of rock out of the ground and never found one with all these features.  The streaking is what has me curious. And the inclusions of bone/iron/whatever.  

 

Take it to a local museum or college and show it to a professional paleontologist.

You could also try a local rock or fossil club.

[ColdwaterShale]

12 minutes ago, ynot said:

Take it to a local museum or collage and show it to a professional paleontologist.

You could also try a local rock or fossil club.

Im thinking I may visit a show this weekend.  I was hoping to get some impressions before someone sees it in person.  Thanks.

[ColdwaterShale]

1 hour ago, Troodon said:

Welcome to the forum.  I'm also having problems seeing bone or a skull maybe additional photos may help .  Skulls typically are not a solid mass but made of very thin bone elements, very different than what I'm seeing.

Troodon and board,   in my quick researches, I thought I was understanding that premineralized cast fossils may describe something that resembled a plaster or concrete figure of organics in various stages of decomposition. I was reading that lines or tracks that extend around the surface could also indicate fossil containing casts.  I have no examples to see so imagination becomes active.  I have looked for a long long while at this thing; objectively trying to discover what made it.  Soon I will get hands on it to tell me for sure.  Are there any examples of larger vertebrate fossil that are like I am picturing--ie. plaster like, containing tissue& bone?

[RJB]

Im not going to say anything. 

 

RB

[Fossildude19]

+ 1 for geologic item.

No bone texture. No skull morphology. 

 

While identifying fossils from a photograph or two online is not the best way of having something identified, many of us have multiple years of experience dealing with fossils.

 

You have 5 different members with over 100+ years of experience between them, (with one being a dinosaur expert. Troodon) 

All have reached a consensus that this is a block of rock, possibly limestone. 

I think that is a number of pretty well informed impressions.  

 

I wish you the best of luck if you take it somewhere. 

I hope you find some answers.

Regards, 

 

[Troodon]

I love your enthusiasm and would suggest what others have already said, take your specimen to a show or even better a museum.  It would be good to get a first hand perspective on your find.  We all would like to give you a positive response but to often that's not possible.  Thanks for taking the time to use the forum.

[EMP]

 

9 hours ago, ColdwaterShale said:

, I am brand new to forum. Signed up because of my sudden interest in fossils. I unearthed one in Michigan this past week 3/22, while digging a trench.  I need to find someone that can verify and advise me how to protect it.  I believe it contains bone fragment. One large portion of bone is removable. From what I am learning on the fly, it is a true form fossil, cast in place.  I believe it is a complete animal skull.  I will add any necessary details soon and pictures when I compress file size.  

 

Could have fossils in it if it's Michigan limestone. Try breaking off a tiny chip and see if it dissolves in vinegar, if it dissolves or bubbles than it's limestone. I do know there are Jurassic rocks in central Michigan, so there's always a chance. But I'm not nearly as experienced as the other people on here about dinosaurs, I'm more of a Paleozoic guy. 

[ColdwaterShale]

I appreciate everyone's input.  Sounds like I have a big paper weight here.  Hmmm. 

I decided to finally remove the "bone" fragment from the front.  I wanted to see why it was part of the main cast. It indeed does extend deep into it. Then I replaced it. 

[fifbrindacier]

I'll go with the others, no fossil here, but keep on digging, you'll find interesting things.

[ColdwaterShale]

Update.  FWIW, Ive found three people that believe its a skull. The only ones that have been able to see in person. They didnt even hesitate. All were impressed with the lines that extend randomly around object.  Also pointed out was the bone in the neck area.  Looks like vertabrae, with vascular/nerve passages.

There is a hollow passage within the bone fragment I removed from the forehead. Very unusual.   I hope I can reach a pro that will look at it soon.  

 

@EMP, I tried the vinegar experiment.  Inconclusive.  Bone material definitely did not react in vinegar, even 2 days later.  White limey material is rather fragile anyway and I believe may react. It simply remained in vinegar as small particles.  I didnt take large samples. Also, wouldnt some materials in a mud- mummified skull potentially be reactive in vinegar?

 

[Fossildude19]

30 minutes ago, ColdwaterShale said:

Update.  FWIW, Ive found three people that believe its a skull. The only ones that have been able to see in person. They didnt even hesitate. All were impressed with the lines that extend randomly

 

 

 

Were any of these people paleontologists, or biologists? Geologists?

Paleontology in Michigan.

[Kane]

I'm also not seeing any bone structure or texture in this. The cavities you describe can also form through various geologic processes. As your "geological" next door neighbour in Ontario, we share a lot of similar geologic history. Anything that might have lived in the Mesozoic would have been scraped away by one of the several glaciation events. Judging by the eroded appearance of this rock, it most likely succumbed to glacial-period erosion before being deposited and covered over with till and soil. I've worked with similar sedimentary rocks that have some brittleness and porosity, but I feel reasonably sure judging by the images you've provided that you don't have a skull here.

[ColdwaterShale]

26 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

 

Were any of these people paleontologists, or biologists?

 

Paleontology in Michigan.

No.  One I trust as she is a rockhound and studied many archeology/paleo courses.  But as yet, no experts.   I value their opinions but not any more than my own.

[ColdwaterShale]

5 minutes ago, Kane said:

I'm also not seeing any bone structure or texture in this. The cavities you describe can also form through various geologic processes. As your "geological" next door neighbour in Ontario, we share a lot of similar geologic history. Anything that might have lived in the Mesozoic would have been scraped away by one of the several glaciation events. Judging by the eroded appearance of this rock, it most likely succumbed to glacial-period erosion before being deposited and covered over with till and soil. I've worked with similar sedimentary rocks that have some brittleness and porosity, but I feel reasonably sure judging by the images you've provided that you don't have a skull here.

 Here is a macro I just took.  Not sure why it changed rotation when I uploaded.  Regardless, this is the entire "vertebrae".  definitely clay packed, but structure appears evident to me.