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A few shots just in... brighter but not all perfectly in focus, especially of the front two but I've asked for a better in focus one of those.

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Better shot of the two at front end, I think the tooth at the front end (right) is the one the seller believes may have been "put back in place", other than that she says she doesn't see any other repairs/restoration. Thoughts?

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I like this jaw better.  Agreed the teeth in the last photo looked placed.  The ones in the top image look real.  The middle one is harder to call but would lean toward being placed, matrix looks worked around those crowns.  A photo a bit more right on those two may help.

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The second jaw does look more complete and authentic. If any of the teeth are placed, it's been done well. Looks like a Platecarpus or Halisaurus to me.

 

200 is on the pricier side though. If you are patient, you could get this kinda jaw at 150 or less.

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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I'm thinking Halisaurus on the second jaw. I also agree that the first tooth in this jaw was placed. This one is definitely more authentic. The first jaw is just so BIG though :trex:

 

New listings come and go. Don't feel rushed!

 

 

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I agree with the last three posts about price and authenticity. Except that I don't think it's Platecarpus or Halisaurus. The teeth seem a bit fat for Halisaurus. I'd lean more towards Prognathodon. But I'm really not sure.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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Has anyone bought one of these and finished prepping it completely out of the matrix? Or is there a reason people don't do that?

 

Cheers.

"Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe" - Saint Augustine

"Those who can not see past their own nose deserve our pity more than anything else."

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30 minutes ago, Ash said:

Has anyone bought one of these and finished prepping it completely out of the matrix? Or is there a reason people don't do that?

 

Cheers.

 

I've seen folks at the Tucson fossil show buy these jackets just for that purpose, so it's done.  I know a few prep dealers that have done that to full skulls.

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1 hour ago, Ash said:

Has anyone bought one of these and finished prepping it completely out of the matrix? Or is there a reason people don't do that?

 

Cheers.

 

I have a Prognathodon and a Halisaurus that are prepped out. The Prognathodon was broken in mid-shipping, and I'm quite sure it would've stayed in one piece if it was left in the plaster jacket.

 

Mosasaur-Jaw_2.thumb.jpg.e79ed2f2f00482ee13da312f0bbf25be.jpg Mystery_Mosasaur-1.thumb.jpg.58b877f2d727195750a7a81d79a20574.jpg Mystery_Mosasaur-3.thumb.jpg.5537ad22f7fdd99bc38684cb654f19fc.jpg

 

I guess dealers leave it for safety, and to save on the cost of prepping

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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1 hour ago, Ash said:

Has anyone bought one of these and finished prepping it completely out of the matrix? Or is there a reason people don't do that?

 

Cheers.

I like to buy unprepped ones and often I prep them completely out of the matrix. If there are a lot of fragments that do not necessarily go together it might be better to leave the bones in a matrix block. but if pieces to go together or it's just one object, removing the object will reveal more detail about the animal. If it's a lot of separate pieces, information is lost.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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5 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

I agree with the last three posts about price and authenticity. Except that I don't think it's Platecarpus or Halisaurus. The teeth seem a bit fat for Halisaurus. I'd lean more towards Prognathodon. But I'm really not sure.

 

Hmm, maybe you're right. Could be Prognathodon. Agreed it doesn't seem to be Platecarpus.

 

I have a small freestanding Halisaurus jaw section in my collection and these teeth do appear to differ slightly. The two teeth in my jaw section below would match up with the front two teeth of the jaw shown above by AndOe (Given the front most tooth is believed to be placed in that jaw). The groove on the inside of both of these jaws seems to differ as well. For size comparison my jaw section below is just over 2" in length. 

 

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Admittedly, patience is not my strongest suit:ighappy: but no matter if I end up getting this or not, I've learned a lot... especially with regards to the iffy nature of a lot of these seemingly authentic pieces. I see a few dealers out there with very small incomplete jaws selling for around the $400 mark, give or take... so I guess at least this is not necessarily an inflated dealer price (?), collector to collector would of course be preferable due to pricing but not sure where to turn to for this. I guess what I would idealistically like is for it to be something that is largely untouched and as complete as possible. Of course, within a certain budget you can't really have it all your way so I realize something's got to give... either condition, to a certain degree, or size.

 

And thank you both for showing your specimens, lovely material!

 

So, I don't know... seems like this is another example where only the rear two teeth are original to the jaw itself. Nicely done though, right? At least a low better than the plaster roots of the big one... but yes... I still feel drawn to its size as well:trex:

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So, is the general consensus that all but the rear two teeth have been replaced and that it's therefore overpriced for what it is? I see some single jaws out there priced in the thousands, last bigger one I inquired about was 10x the price of the initial bigger jaw I posted, so I guess the prices get going once there's no replaced teeth/similar type restorations.

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I guess I would turn the question around: given what you know about the state of this jaw, what is it worth to you? Would having it at this price make you happy? If so, bien a vous, go for it! :)

...How to Philosophize with a Hammer

 

 

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Thanks for the input, I appreciate it--- truly. And I totally agree in principle... but I'm only inquiring as I know the nature of collecting to be fluid and that I therefore would prefer not to overpay for something I would likely upgrade later down the line and I kind of feel this would hinge on the consensus re. the 2 teeth in the middle and whether they're both replacements as well. Not my meaning to be asking questions ad nauseam, just wanting to learn.

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No, these are good questions, for sure! I guess if it were me, I'd bake in the desire to upgrade into my purchasing decision. The fact that you might be looking to upgrade to a better specimen might speak to some prudence in letting this one pass and saving your cash for the next one (there will be a next one, of that I am fairly certain!). In sum, why pay twice? You'd only be having to sell the old one to justify the new one to recoup costs. If this is not a "must-have," sometimes it is better to know when to let 'em go ;)

 

...How to Philosophize with a Hammer

 

 

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You are probably right --- it's just that with a newcomers enthusiasm comes impatience and then the inability to save up in the traditional manner follows:D But, again... I agree with your sentiments on the subject, this would certainly be the reasonable way... I guess I'll just have to ponder it some more. Aside from this particular item though, I feel a purchase is pending no matter what... i think it might be "toothy".

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Well actually, the dealer for the first jaw has a cool trade-up policy under the "company policy" page. You can purchase a specimen from this dealer and as long as you have the receipt and the specimen is in the original condition you can trade in your fossil at a later time to go towards a higher value, better quality fossil. It's a cool way to keep upgrading your collection's quality without having to duplicate specimens! If you're really itching for a jaw you could consider purchasing a jaw from this dealer and trading up for a better jaw down the road. Food for thought :popcorn:.

 

TRADE UP POLICY – Our policy on fossil specimens is to allow our customers the option to upgrade to better quality specimens at a later date if they should so desire. This allows our customers to build and improve their collections without duplicating specimens. The original specimen would be traded in at the value of the original purchase (as shown on your receipt copy) towards one specimen of the same type, of higher value.

  • “Trade Offs” – Occassionally some of our customers ask if they can trade a previously purchased specimen(one of ours of course), for a complelety different type of specimen. We will usually agree to this, but require that the new specimen value be at least double the value of the one being traded in.
  • Note* All trade-ins must have prior approval, by contacting us, before being initiated. Specimens to be traded in “Must” be in the same condition as they were when originally purchased, and accompanied by copy of original receipt.
  • Note* Trade ups to upgrade a specimen, and trade offs for exchanging one specimen for a different one of double value, both are one time offers per specimen, and carry the following limitations: The specimen being requested will not be covered in our 15 day return policy and also cannot be traded toward any further specimens. Clarification : No specimen that has been received as a trade up or exchange can be returned, or exchanged for other specimens.
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Side note - This discussion has finally motivated me to stop being lazy and remove the added tooth from my first jaw. Last night I used some dental picks to dig out the tooth and clean out the socket. So far I'm very happy with the results! I'm currently in the process of filling in the hole where the tooth was (Waiting for the first layer of glue/matrix mixture to dry) but I'll post a picture once it's done.

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Thanks for the info --- it is a good policy indeed, although the distance kind of screws up the relative convenience of taking advantage of it but still a very fair policy... the dealer seemed easy enough to deal with also. I am still considering this and that but, of course, I take the advice of taking it a bit more slowly to heart also. You've certainly all been of great help so far! What matters the most is that I am now able to make an informed decision vs. one of pure chance.

 

Oh... would love to see the results of the removal when you're done!

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1 hour ago, AndOe said:

Thanks for the info --- it is a good policy indeed, although the distance kind of screws up the relative convenience of taking advantage of it but still a very fair policy... the dealer seemed easy enough to deal with also. I am still considering this and that but, of course, I take the advice of taking it a bit more slowly to heart also. You've certainly all been of great help so far! What matters the most is that I am now able to make an informed decision vs. one of pure chance.

 

Oh... would love to see the results of the removal when you're done!

 

I keep forgetting you are over seas. This dealer often does free shipping in the U.S. too :-/ . I've been there though, paying the big bucks for oversea shipping. It adds up quick for bigger items.

 

Another note: On the second jaw I think the guys above are right that the 4 front teeth were likely placed. I'm in the same camp as @Troodon. The first two teeth were definitely placed IMO and the middle two look like they were likely placed(?). The last two teeth in the second jaw are definitely 100% authentic. When you compare the joins of the teeth, where the roots connect to the crowns, the first four teeth don't really match the last two. They don't meld together quite as well/naturally IMO.

 

However, even though the second jaw is a composite it's still a nice composite. When looking at the teeth, the species seems to be consistent and they did a good job placing the added teeth. Not usually the case with most of these composites. There always seems to be one little issue with these composite jaws. I recently saw a post on here of an awesome, huge jaw... except one of the teeth was clearly place backwards. Once you see it you can't unsee it!!! :blink:

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Yeah... shipping, especially for the bigger items, really does add up. Even though, like you've stated, it might be a nice composite I've pretty much decided now to postpone and keep looking for something with fewer issues--- I guess if I wanted a composite/one with only two rear teeth actually original to the piece I could as well have picked up the 3x bigger jaw. Still feel the first one is a nice looking jaw even if you visualize it without the composite teeth... I don't think it would have been all that bad looking if the composites were removed...

 

Out of curiosity; would something like this bigger jaw be very hard to prep out of the matrix? I guess if this was possible it would make for an ever better looking display and having had the bonus of a 3d display piece, having all angles to gawk at, it would have kind of balanced out the visual result of an eventual removal of the teeth that does not really belong.

 

And, yes... once you have seen the visual evidence of tampering, it really cannot be unseen. I know this from other areas of collecting all too well.

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I would think a larger jaw would be a bit more complex and take a longer to prep.   However it's not about size but all the other factors:   Quality,  Number of teeth exposed and overall LOOK the visual.  I think you're doing the right thing, no reason to jump at this time.   Keep your options open and if you come across a jaw that fits, that's the time to pull the trigger.  

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Bigger is harder yes. I find that it's almost always best to prep under a microscope. But big fossils will not fit. In typical Moroccan mosasaurs the matrix is very similar in sturdiness and colour to the bone. So under a microscope it's much easier to see the difference, and as a result easier to clean out all the nice little details.

Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite

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