Do most collectors not buy fossils?

[Troodon]

11 minutes ago, Ptychodus04 said:

 

Loaned specimens can be studied and examined but can not be used as research specimens in a published, peer reviewed, paper. 

 

Correct but they were able to make replicas and continue to use them in their research.  The point being it's not a stamp or tea cup.

[HamptonsDoc]

I would love to go on a dig but I live in an area where that's not possible. All of my fossils are bought and displayed in my home as art. I learn as much of the science behind them and gather and maintain as much information on the locality of them as I can. The hunt for me is traveling to fossil shows around the country, and I get a great feeling when I find that one rare piece I can display in my home. I would like to try a dig one day but frankly I dont have the patience for the meticulous labor needed for the prep and the time spent would interfere with my work schedule and other hobbies (off-shore fishing!).

[Ptychodus04]

54 minutes ago, Troodon said:

 

Correct but they were able to make replicas and continue to use them in their research.  The point being it's not a stamp or tea cup.

I completely agree.

[Harry Pristis]

3 hours ago, Wendell Ricketts said:

Harry, I wasn't snotty to you, so I ask that you not be snotty to me.
Your opinions are your opinions, but none of them carries the weight of a fact -- especially that "all fossil collecting is curio collecting." Experitise is not elitism, and I'll just leave it there.

W

 

I'm sorry that my response struck you as snotty, Wendell.  That was not my intent.  What I intended was to provide an alternate way of thinking about collecting fossils, a view that may be uncomfortable for some readers.  I was hoping to be provocative, not snotty.  I appreciate the subsequent thoughtful comments.

[Darktooth]

I started out more of a gem and mineral collector. When I first started collecting i had to have everthing. So I self collected what I had access to and bought what I didn't have access to. Over a period of time I realized that I was losing interest in the purchased items, so I stopped buying. That has carried over to fossil collecting. But I have traded fossils and I find that I enjoy trading with others when possible. That's me,  I don't judge what others do. But I will say that one thing that ticks me off is people who buy fossils and try to mislead others into thinking they found them themselves. We have a show that the local gem and mineral club puts on every year. Club members put together displays of either self found, or bought gem and fossil specimens. Most members label them as such. One year a member put together quite a remarkable display. Not one thing in there did he find himself. In fact he put in a couple extremely nice fossils that I had sold him. Throughout the show he mislead people into thinking he found all that stuff. That really rubbed me the wrong way. Other than that I think people should collect how ever it suits them. There are way more pressing concerns in the world today.

[Mediospirifer]

I see some people here commenting that without complete stratigraphic information, a specimen is scientifically without value (or at least, that's the impression I get from some comments here). Does that mean 'float' samples are worthless? Most of the places I collect don't allow digging, so float is all that's available!

 

For example, my pathological brachiopods. I can tell you what species they are, which Indiana roadcut they came from, and what formations are exposed there, but I found them loose (having weathered out of the matrix) in the scree at the bottom of the cut. Are they worthless to a museum? The brachiopod researcher I showed them to would probably disagree; he was very happy to receive some for the collection!

 

20 hours ago, Darktooth said:

But I will say that one thing that ticks me off is people who buy fossils and try to mislead others into thinking they found them themselves. We have a show that the local gem and mineral club puts on every year. Club members put together displays of either self found, or bought gem and fossil specimens. Most members label them as such. One year a member put together quite a remarkable display. Not one thing in there did he find himself. In fact he put in a couple extremely nice fossils that I had sold him. Throughout the show he mislead people into thinking he found all that stuff. That really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I fully understand that! The annoyance, that is. I'll admit that I don't always label displays by what was found vs. purchased, but if someone asks I'm happy to point out which ones I (or my husband) found. Dishonesty doesn't help anyone; while it's great to get complimented on finding a spectacular piece, the satisfaction would be empty if the piece in question hadn't been found by me!

 

[Ridgehiker]

1 hour ago, Mediospirifer said:

The brachiopod researcher I showed them to would probably disagree; he was very happy to receive some for the collection!

 

Many here confuse science and collections. There are hundreds of fossil collections in universities, museums, etc.  Science is about published research...not collections. What specimens are acceptable in peer reviewed publications?  Its not a specimen without full collecting info. Being in a museum doesnt give it a pass.  There is nothing wrong with 'float' material if it described properly and can be documented as coming from a specific stratigraphic lens.

 

After publication all specimens must be curated and made reasonably  available to researchers doing further study.  If a specimen is not available then a published paper can be declared as invalid.    During the 'Cold War'  there actually was really good relations and exchanges of specimens among paleontologists. Nobody on either side  wanted their hard earned research papers invalidated.

 

Its a positive that you have a museum that publishes research on brachiopods. Few these days do any paleontological publishing  on invertebrates.  Even then, perhaps something every couple of years.

[EMP]

Personally I prefer personally finding my fossils than purchasing them. Maybe it's my cynicism, but I've never felt quite comfortable buying really rare fossils from dealers or stores because of all the fakes out there. Throw in the high price tag on top and you've created a real barrier to me. Going on more, I've found that unless you're willing to dish out thousands or hundreds of dollars then you won't be able to really get a good selection of what one area has to offer and instead have to resort to buying a few more common (or cheap!) specimens.

 

In contrast, going to a site and personally splitting the shale and uncovering a 350 million year old leaf or a 400 million year old sea shell means a lot more to me personally then driving to a store and looking at a shelf for a few minutes. Even if my finds are less spectacular (and believe me, none of my fossils are particularly rare or beautiful) than one I might buy, the personal effort that went into collecting it and the story behind how I found it really mean a lot.

 

Now, sometimes I do buy fossils, but it's certainly not a weekly or even monthly basis. Usually I'll buy something if it's a fossil I know I'll never find and looks neat, or compliments fossils I have found. Definitely the exception to the rule, however.

 

Edit: I saw some posts about people starting from mineral collecting. How interesting! I too collected minerals for years before I got into fossils. I still have lots of my old micromount collection, but unfortunately there were fewer mineral sites around me then fossil ones. That doesn't mean I still don't collect good looking crystals every now and then .

 

 

 

[Cam28]

Really is a grey area as has been covered. I started my collection by purchasing a couple teeth (older than the cenozoic, so can't find in Florida).

 

In general I feel whatever floats your boat without crossing certain moral boundaries (i.e. buying super rare specimens unknown to sceince or collected unethically). But if it is something that is common or relatively common, and can't find it where you are at or can easily travel, why not, long as you take care of it. At a certain point all fossils become overpriced though, certainly the case as some exploit the fact there are fakes out there and boast "certificates of authenticity" and expect hundreds if not thousands. That I don't support but there are reasonable dealers too.

 

It can be a great way to start/complement your collections in moderation but nothing like being the first person to find/see a quality fossil.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

The cool thing about collecting is that you can choose and pursue your own path.  So long as your path is a legal and ethical one, there is no wrong way.  Personal preference, willingness to travel, budget, time constraints, logistics, etc all interplay on a personal level, leading to personal satisfaction according to individual circumstances.

 

I've bought some and traded for some, but I really prefer to find my own for several reasons:

 

- Adventure in nature to satisfy my primal calling

- Personal satisfaction derived from goal setting and attainment via personal investment/ research/ sweat equity

- Individual achievement 

 

I think objectives and preferences evolve over time as well.  I'm still in acquisition mode at present, but in the years to come, once I've scratched every itch, mentoring will probably be an increasing part of my walk with paleo.

 

All that said, find the approach that resonates most for you, and have fun.  It has been a while since I've sold any fossils (been donating a ton though), but I recall being glad there were people willing to buy them.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

Furthermore, I still have the fossils I purchased at museums as a kid and value them as highly as fossils found in adulthood, if not more so.

[siteseer]

On 4/13/2017 at 8:45 PM, Hat said:

I watched a youtube video on a fossil collection someone had purchased, and someone in the comment section actually said something like "buying fossils is for (expletive). I go out in 110 degrees and work all day to find mine".

 

I thought "wow! do people really think like that?".

 

So is there some unsaid rule that people who dig their own fossils are somehow cooler or tougher than those who buy them? I don't have any accessible fossil sites near me. My collecting career was limited to a few months I spent in southwestern New Mexico. I was then in an accident from which I'm still recovering, which prohibits me from strenuous activity.

 

Just curious. I just bought some fossils online.

 

Scott 

 

 

In any hobby there is always someone who wants to feel like he is doing it better than other people and he feels like he has to say it in public.  It's great if you can collect your own fossils and lucky if you can collect the kinds of fossils you like the most.  

 

 

[RickNC]

I generally don't buy fossils but I don't look down upon those who do. The thrill of the hunt is the best part of the hobby in my opinion. 

[fossiling]

In some places, like Hong Kong, fossils cannot be collected. So I buy fossils on the internet as a means of collecting. If you live in those places, collecting is only restricted to trips overseas, so collection is limited.

[Bguild]

I live in New England which is not a particularly fossiliferous area of the US so the majority of my collection has been purchased from far away lands. To me these fossils are just as important as any I find. I still study and learn as much as I can about each of the fossils I purchase and I meticulously record each specimen's full information (Age, location, repairs... etc). I have a big ol' Excel spreadsheet with all of the details on each of my purchases and personal finds.

 

That being said, I did start collecting my own fossils a few years ago because I wanted the satisfaction of finding my own specimens. I also love being out in nature and I wanted to learn the process of finding and preparing my own fossils. I have to admit, I did somewhat feel like I was cheating by simply clicking an "Order" button online and waiting a day or two for a trilobite or dinosaur tooth to show up on my doorstep . However, this hasn't stopped me from buying new fossils when one catches my eye. 

 

Honestly, just do whatever makes you happy. I have my purchased collection and the collection of fossils I found and both are special to me in their own ways. Plus now my better finds get put into a display case along with my purchased fossils. They compliment each other.

[fossiling]

21 hours ago, Bguild said:

 I have to admit, I did somewhat feel like I was cheating by simply clicking an "Order" button online and waiting a day or two for a trilobite or dinosaur tooth to show up on my doorstep . However, this hasn't stopped me from buying new fossils when one catches my eye. 

No, that's not cheating. There's something called the Internet Formation, and the only tools you need are a computer and some money. Collect fossils in the comfirt of your own armchair!

[Bguild]

57 minutes ago, fossiling said:

No, that's not cheating. There's something called the Internet Formation, and the only tools you need are a computer and some money. Collect fossils in the comfirt of your own armchair!

 

The most accessible formation for sure lol.

[digit]

I'll add my 1/50 of a dollar to this conversation.

 

Going back to the start of this topic, my wife makes a great quiche and we had it with friends last weekend--yum!

 

As has been related above, by now you'll realize that the disparaging comment (outside of this forum) that initiated this topic was the ignorant opinion of someone either trying to elicit a response or, well, just showing their ignorance. Personally, I'm in the camp of finding in the field rather than collecting by computer. That being said, I've got no problems with people who are limited to (or prefer) to build a collection by acquiring pieces of their choosing online (or at fossil shows). The great thing about TFF is that we are united by our passion for these odd shaped rocks that hold clues to the distant past. The TFF membership is (I'm sure) composed of folks who have built their collections all along the spectrum from personal finds to trades (and TFF auctions ) to outright purchases and mostly (except for entries into the Fossil Of The Month contest) we don't really care. People get into fossil collecting for as many reasons as there are fossil collectors. I know some people who are fascinated with things like megalodon teeth or trilobites and focus on building the most complete collection they can afford (either with purchases or travel to collect their own). Some people collect as much as they can from their local area. Florida is a great place to live as a fossil hunter as we have places like the Peace River for shark teeth and a wide mix of Miocene-Pleistocene fossils, lots of places to pick up fossil shells and corals (including places as convenient as my own yard), Eocene echinoids further north. I know Floridians whose collection is probably entirely from Florida. The truth is people's methods of building a collection are like opinions--all different and idiosyncratic and nobody has the right to disparage another. The TFF moderators (and the community in general) keep this place civil and informative and, while you may find lots of good-natured ribbing from time to time, you shouldn't see people belittled or denigrated for however they choose to collect the fossils they treasure.

 

The reason I choose to build my collection with personal finds rather than purchases is that my fossils are very much a "curio collection" as stated above by Harry. Most (virtually all) of what I have has little scientific merit as it is from generally well-known and well-collected locations where museum collections have better examples of what is in my collection. On the rare occasion where I have something that may be of interest to science, I gladly volunteer to donate it to the appropriate museum. To me, my fossil collection (along with rocks, shells, antique bottles, and other souvenirs from places I've traveled) are nothing more than mementos of fun times in the past where I've been out in the field hunting for the thrill of discovering some precious little remnant of the past. Several above have expressed this same opinion and I'm sure the adrenaline rush of encountering a great find in the field is what motivates a significant portion of this forum's membership to get out in the field to see what they can find. Some people play the scratch-off lottery tickets to test their luck but I choose to go fossil hunting. The jury is out as to which pastime is more expensive but I'm quite certain which is more rewarding.

 

I can look around my (home) office or walk around my house and see fossils scattered all around--in display cabinets, sitting in bowls, adorning most flat level surfaces, hanging on walls. Until I've gone out to too many fossil hunting sites or till my memory starts to fade (like most modern store receipts), each fossil in my collection has a memory attached to them and seeing the fossil helps connect me with the moment of its discovery (usually augmented by taking lots of photos on my hunting trips). I have a few fossils that I've been given by some of the TFF members I've had the honor of meeting. Those items carry different memories and are special as reminders of a different type of experience. Fossils without a backstory are dead to me (well, deader than most other fossils). This is simply my personal opinion and my fossil collection represents, in tangible form, the many past collecting trips I've enjoyed greatly (some more than others). I like to say that I collect experiences and that fossils are merely a byproduct.

 

Fossils can also be beautiful works of natural art and I cannot fault someone for acquiring (by any [legal] means) possible the most diverse assemblage of trilobites or ammonites or fern fossils, etc. I recognize my own OCD tendencies and I know that that type of collecting could get really out of hand were I to start amassing a more well-rounded fossil collection through purchases/trades. I will never consider someone's purchased collection somehow "inferior" to my collection for being obtained through online sources or fossil shows rather than digging and sifting and splitting. In most cases, purchased collections will contain many more beautiful specimens than I could ever hope to include in my collection. My personal philosophy has always been:

 

It's all about the journey, not the destination.

(and its corollary)

It's all about the experience, not the collection.

 

 

More proof that I spend too much time typing on this forum.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken