Big mammal tooth

[Max-fossils]

Hi all,

 

Had a very successful hunt at the Zandmotor yesterday (will post a trip report soon), where I namely found this jewel: a very big nearly complete mammal tooth! Looks a lot like a molar. But I have no idea of what animal it came from... Anyone have a clue?

Found on the Zandmotor, NL; Pleistocene in age.

 

Happy Easter everyone!

 

Max

[Max-fossils]

[Max-fossils]

@Harry Pristis

[steelhead9]

Woolly rhino lower molar, most likely coelodonta antiquitatis.

[Max-fossils]

30 minutes ago, steelhead9 said:

Woolly rhino lower molar, most likely coelodonta antiquitatis.

Thanks! But I cannot seem to find a good match on Google... Do you have a good matching picture?

[fossilized6s]

I agree with Woolly Rhino. 

 

Sweet find! 

[Max-fossils]

44 minutes ago, fossilized6s said:

I agree with Woolly Rhino. 

 

Sweet find! 

Thank you! I'm also very happy with the find 

But do you have any other woolly rhino pics to compare with this one?

[Peat Burns]

1 hour ago, Max-fossils said:

Thank you! I'm also very happy with the find 

But do you have any other woolly rhino pics to compare with this one?

There are a number of photos on google.  See if this search helps.

[Max-fossils]

1 hour ago, Peat Burns said:

There are a number of photos on google.  See if this search helps.

Thanks for helping, and yes, there are a few photos that are a bit similar, but none of the teeth have a matching root in my opinion... But I'll put it down as Coelodonta antiquatis, since everyone believes it's that. Still a very cool find, of which I'm very proud of!

[Peat Burns]

1 minute ago, Max-fossils said:

Thanks for helping, and yes, there are a few photos that are a bit similar, but none of the teeth have a matching root in my opinion... But I'll put it down as Coelodonta antiquatis, since everyone believes it's that. Still a very cool find, of which I'm very proud of!

It is a very nice find! I'm not familiar enough with rhinos to verify or contest the identity that has been suggested (although rhino of some kind was my first thought).  You might try to find some peer-reviewed journal articles and books that have nice photos and / or line drawings.  Congrats on the nice find!

[Max-fossils]

2 minutes ago, Peat Burns said:

It is a very nice find! I'm not familiar enough with rhinos to verify or contest the identity that has been suggested (although rhino of some kind was my first thought).  You might try to find some peer-reviewed journal articles and books that have nice photos and / or line drawings.  Congrats on the nice find!

Thanks! It's in fact the first valuable find it made on the Zandmotor, even though it's my 4th time hunting there. I guess hard work pays off! 

I tried looking also at line drawings in pdf docs, and though I found a few nice ones, none of them had an exact matching root... Maybe mine is slightly pathological?

 

Best regards and happy Easter!

 

Max

[Peat Burns]

@Max-fossilsHappy Easter to you!  It looks like it is slightly broken and worn, but still an awesome find.  Hopefully more experts will chime in after the holiday.  Occlusal surface will be most diagnostic.

[Max-fossils]

6 minutes ago, Peat Burns said:

@Max-fossilsHappy Easter to you!  It looks like it is slightly broken and worn, but still an awesome find.  Hopefully the experts will chime in after the holiday.  Occlusal surface will be most diagnostic.

I hope so too! Thanks 

[Darktooth]

That is a very cool find Max! Congratulations!

[Max-fossils]

32 minutes ago, Darktooth said:

That is a very cool find Max! Congratulations!

Thanks a lot Dave!

[LordTrilobite]

Yup definitely rhino lower jaw molar.

[Max-fossils]

2 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said:

Yup definitely rhino lower jaw molar.

OK thank you!

[abyssunder]

1- It is an isolated tooth with the crown partially damaged (broken), so it's hard to establish how weared it was. I speculated with the idea of a deciduous molar of a juvenile Coelodonta, but, I think, the root at one side is too curved to be pushed out easily, so I think it coudn't be deciduous.
2- The Sand Engine (Sand Motor) was created by humans and it's an experiment in the management of dynamic coastline. Why do you think is Pleistocene in age? (I'm not familiar with the region)
3- I'm not an expert.
4- Nice find, BTW!

 

[LordTrilobite]

2 hours ago, abyssunder said:

1- It is an isolated tooth with the crown partially damaged (broken), so it's hard to establish how weared it was. I speculated with the idea of a deciduous molar of a juvenile Coelodonta, but, I think, the root at one side is too curved to be pushed out easily, so I think it coudn't be deciduous.
2- The Sand Engine (Sand Motor) was created by humans and it's an experiment in the management of dynamic coastline. Why do you think is Pleistocene in age? (I'm not familiar with the region)
3- I'm not an expert.
4- Nice find, BTW!

 

Zandmotor has sediment from the North Sea. The range is Middle Pleistocene to recent. Sometimes it can be hard to differentiate the middle Pleistocene (warmer climate) material from the Late Pleistocene (colder climate). There are 2 rhinos present in the North Sea. The Etruscan rhino (Stephanorhinus etruscus) from the middle pleistocene which is very rare. And the woolly rhino (Coelodonta antiquitatis) from the late pleistocene. The main difference between the two species are the skull and legs. Stephanorhinus has longer legs, different nose and different teeth.

The folds on the teeth of Coelodonta are more closed than those on Stephanorhinus, at least on the upper jaw.

 

This tooth is very likely rhino lower jaw molar. The problem is that the most identifiable area is damaged. Woolly rhino is way more common than the pretty rare etruscan rhino. So it's likely woolly rhino.

[abyssunder]

36 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said:

The problem is that the most identifiable area is damaged.

This is the point...
The specien is a lower cheek tooth, no doubt.
Is the Sand Engine reworked material? (just asking - where it came from?)

[LordTrilobite]

It's an artificial extension of the beach made from sediments taken from the North Sea. So the fossils in there originally come from the bottom of the sea.

[Nimravis]

Here is a pic of a lower Woolly Rhino jaw that I purchased recently.

[Max-fossils]

11 hours ago, abyssunder said:

1- It is an isolated tooth with the crown partially damaged (broken), so it's hard to establish how weared it was. I speculated with the idea of a deciduous molar of a juvenile Coelodonta, but, I think, the root at one side is too curved to be pushed out easily, so I think it coudn't be deciduous.
2- The Sand Engine (Sand Motor) was created by humans and it's an experiment in the management of dynamic coastline. Why do you think is Pleistocene in age? (I'm not familiar with the region)
3- I'm not an expert.
4- Nice find, BTW!

 

 

9 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

Zandmotor has sediment from the North Sea. The range is Middle Pleistocene to recent. Sometimes it can be hard to differentiate the middle Pleistocene (warmer climate) material from the Late Pleistocene (colder climate). There are 2 rhinos present in the North Sea. The Etruscan rhino (Stephanorhinus etruscus) from the middle pleistocene which is very rare. And the woolly rhino (Coelodonta antiquitatis) from the late pleistocene. The main difference between the two species are the skull and legs. Stephanorhinus has longer legs, different nose and different teeth.

The folds on the teeth of Coelodonta are more closed than those on Stephanorhinus, at least on the upper jaw.

 

This tooth is very likely rhino lower jaw molar. The problem is that the most identifiable area is damaged. Woolly rhino is way more common than the pretty rare etruscan rhino. So it's likely woolly rhino.

 

8 hours ago, abyssunder said:

This is the point...
The specien is a lower cheek tooth, no doubt.
Is the Sand Engine reworked material? (just asking - where it came from?)

 

7 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

It's an artificial extension of the beach made from sediments taken from the North Sea. So the fossils in there originally come from the bottom of the sea.

Olof is right, the Zandmotor is sand dredged up from the North Sea, which is famous for its numerous Pleistocene fossils. In fact there are regularly boats that go there with big fishing nets to collect fossils there, and often spectacular finds are made. But so the fossils from the Zandmotor are exactly the same as those in the North Sea, as well as those from Hoek van Holland and Maasvlakte 2 (two other very similar locations along the Dutch coast, both also artificially made). 

 

@abyssunder What do you mean though by deciduous? 

11 hours ago, abyssunder said:

 I speculated with the idea of a deciduous molar of a juvenile Coelodonta, but, I think, the root at one side is too curved to be pushed out easily, so I think it coudn't be deciduous.

 

 

Back to the tooth, here is a picture from the Museon (museum in The Hague) of a molar of an Etruscan rhino. If seen from above, my tooth has kind of the shape of a rectangle, as in its longer than it is wide, while this tooth is more square. Therefore I think that my tooth is more likely woolly rhino, like everyone else suggested.

 

Best regards,

 

Max

[Max-fossils]

7 hours ago, Nimravis said:

Here is a pic of a lower Woolly Rhino jaw that I purchased recently.

Very nice jaw! 

Thanks for sharing!

[steelhead9]

22 hours ago, Max-fossils said:

Thanks! But I cannot seem to find a good match on Google... Do you have a good matching picture?