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CEye

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Hi,

 

My family co-owns some property along the Cacapon River in West Virginia, and we often find small fossil shells in great numbers along the roads and creeks. Here are a couple pictures for reference, I think they're Brachiopods?

 

https://i.imgur.com/C3D0QUU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dWgZ617.jpg

 

There are tons of rocks like this in the area, most of which are brittle shale. You can find them just about anywhere, but they're most common on the banks around small creeks. The shell impression on the bottom right of the second image was the largest fossil we'd ever found there, but within a few minutes we stumbled across something similarly sized that we've never seen before.

 

https://i.imgur.com/NbYwr9R.jpg

 

It's about four inches long, segmented, and tapers toward the end. Up close it has a very fine texture pattern that reminded me of coral. A volunteer at our local library seems confident it's the impression from an Orthocone shell, but I wanted to be certain. Can anyone give us an ID?

 

Thanks very much!

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It is likely an impression of a Spyroceras sp., an orthoconic nautiloid that is common in some Devonian formations in that area and up into New York.  The brachiopods on the same rock also have a Devonian aspect to them.

 

Don

 

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Any chance these pictures could be posted directly here without outbound links?

...How to Philosophize with a Hammer

 

 

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These are quite nice. I hope you keep poking around the creeks!

...How to Philosophize with a Hammer

 

 

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Nice finds! I encourage you to keep looking. Who knows what other goodies you might stumble upon?

Dipleurawhisperer5.jpg

I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie.

 

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Your fossil is quite nice and well photographed.

"Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

Thanks to everyone who weighed in! I finally got a chance to return to the site and brought back the supposed Orthocone, as well as three new ones. These were taken with my phone so they're probably not as high quality, but hopefully they still get the point across.

 

I also found a new mystery fossil: attached are two photos, front and back. It has a very course, scaly texture as well as a few visible edges that seem to be smooth and flattened. I'd love to hear what you all think!

 

CampFossil4.jpg

CampFossil5.jpg

CampFossil6.jpg

CampFossil7.jpg

CampFossil1.jpg

CampFossil2.jpg

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On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 6:45 PM, CEye said:

If this works, sure!

Fossils2017_1.jpg

Fossils2017_2.jpg

Fossils2017_3.jpg

 

Four inches is pretty large, but I've found very similar fossils called Tentaculites sp. that, though partial, would have a diameter similar to that.

 

By the way, it sounds like this is coming from the Needmore Formation? The only orthocerid species listed from that unit in this area is Michelinoceras sp. from what I know, but that's a generic name given to any orthocerid that can't be identified more properly. From Michelinoceras sp. I've personally found, this is nothing like it at all.

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On 5/16/2017 at 8:07 PM, CEye said:

Hi all,

 

Thanks to everyone who weighed in! I finally got a chance to return to the site and brought back the supposed Orthocone, as well as three new ones. These were taken with my phone so they're probably not as high quality, but hopefully they still get the point across.

 

I also found a new mystery fossil: attached are two photos, front and back. It has a very course, scaly texture as well as a few visible edges that seem to be smooth and flattened. I'd love to hear what you all think!

 

CampFossil4.jpg  CampFossil5.jpg  CampFossil6.jpg  CampFossil7.jpg  CampFossil1.jpg  CampFossil2.jpg

 

Any way we can get a picture of those "orthocones" next to a coin or ruler?

 

They look more like Tentaculites sp. to me. Tentaculitids are very similar in shape, and are very abundant in the Needmore and Mahantango Formations.

 

Last picture looks like a piece of a Trimerus sp. cephalon (trilobite). Cool find.

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21 minutes ago, EMP said:

 

Any way we can get a picture of those "orthocones" next to a coin or ruler?

 

They look more like Tentaculites sp. to me. Tentaculitids are very similar in shape, and are very abundant in the Needmore and Mahantango Formations.

 

Last picture looks like a piece of a Trimerus sp. cephalon (trilobite). Cool find.

 

Certainly! Here are some more pictures with a ruler. 

 

I also included pictures of another fossil I thought might be worth mentioning. The last picture is the rock opposite it, showing the ringed impression it left.

More1.jpg

More2.jpg

More3.jpg

More4.jpg

More5.jpg

More6.jpg

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2 hours ago, EMP said:

...Last picture looks like a piece of a Trimerus sp. cephalon (trilobite). Cool find.

 

 

These 2 photos are the pygidia of Dipleura dekayi.

 

IMG.jpg.2e694d165f90090a8d607dc16e6b00b9.jpg

image.png.a84de26dad44fb03836a743755df237c.png

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The orthocone is probably Spyroceras sp.

Much of this material looks similar to Mahantango Formation stuff.

Neat finds. 

Regards,

 

EDIT: Here is a good resource for Identifying Devonian inverts. 

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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On 5/16/2017 at 8:42 PM, CEye said:

 

Certainly! Here are some more pictures with a ruler. 

 

I also included pictures of another fossil I thought might be worth mentioning. The last picture is the rock opposite it, showing the ringed impression it left.

More1.jpg  More2.jpg  More3.jpg  More4.jpg

More5.jpg   More6.jpg

 

Sorry guys, I'm seeing Tentaculites sp. and not an orthocone. Spyroceras sp. isn't reported from this area, and these look nothing like any orthocone I've found in the Hamilton Group.

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Could it be a member of cornulitida, they are possibly related to tentaculites and are Devonian. They also bear a striking resemblance to your specimens. By the way I'm by no means an expert and most of my knowledge is from the prestigious institution of Wikipedia so I could be completely incorrect.

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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1 hour ago, EMP said:

 

Sorry guys, I'm seeing Tentaculites sp. and not an orthocone. Spyroceras sp. isn't reported from this area, and these look nothing like any orthocone I've found in the Hamilton Group.

 

4 inches is awfully big for Tentaculites. :unsure: 

Here is one of my Spyroceras, found in the Hamilton Group - 18 Mile Creek, New York.

 

post-2806-0-85372200-1339018609.jpg

 

 

More1.thumb.jpg.d0df58aa012627046f2b20731c5d5f95.jpg

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

   MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png      PaleoPartner.png.30c01982e09b0cc0b7d9d6a7a21f56c6.png.a600039856933851eeea617ca3f2d15f.png     Postmaster1.jpg.900efa599049929531fa81981f028e24.jpg    VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png  VFOTM  --- APRIL - 2015  

__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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12 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

4 inches is awfully big for Tentaculites. :unsure: 

Here is one of my Spyroceras:

 

 

That genus just isn't known from this area, and I've found Tentacuites sp. above two inches in length. Maybe the one is an orthocone if I squint hard enough, but the others just don't fit the bill.

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8 minutes ago, EMP said:

 

That genus just isn't known from this area, and I've found Tentacuites sp. above two inches in length. Maybe the one is an orthocone if I squint hard enough, but the others just don't fit the bill.

 

 

From this Wikipedia page: 

 

"Tentaculitids have ribbed, cone-shaped shells which range in length from 5 to 20 mm"   :headscratch:

20 mm = 0.787402 inches.  Maybe your 2 inch tentaculids are small Spyroceras?

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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This is cornutilida:

CornulitidOrdovician.jpg

it s similar to his(below)

IMG_1430.JPG

“...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin

Happy hunting,

Mason

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Again, the size is the issue with these.  I would agree if they were smaller. 

This Fossil Site mentions the Mahantango Formation in West Virginia, and mentions straight cephalopods and orthocones found there. 

One specifically mentions Michelinoceras.

So, perhaps not Spyroceras, (although it looks like it to me!) but definitely an orthocone, in my opinion. 

 

@FossilDAWG 

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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@CEye You've found an excellent place for very good fossils.  Once again, great finds... good photographs.

"Journey through a universe ablaze with changes" Phil Ochs

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11 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

Again, the size is the issue with these.  I would agree if they were smaller. 

This Fossil Site mentions the Mahantango Formation in West Virginia, and mentions straight cephalopods and orthocones found there. 

One specifically mentions Michelinoceras.

So, perhaps not Spyroceras, (although it looks like it to me!) but definitely an orthocone, in my opinion. 

 

@FossilDAWG 

 

These look nothing like any Michelinoceras sp. I've found from the Mahantango Formation. 

 

Perhaps if not Tentaculites sp. then a crinoid stalk fragment, but certainly not a Michelinoceras sp. 

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We can rule out tentaculites, for sure. I'm not comfortable with assuming this is a crinoid stalk - unless they occur at nearly an inch wide. Something I've never seen in any Hamilton Gp rocks, and any part of a crinoid with that kind of width would concern its calyx (which this piece is clearly not).

...How to Philosophize with a Hammer

 

 

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26 minutes ago, EMP said:

 

These look nothing like any Michelinoceras sp. I've found from the Mahantango Formation. 

 

Perhaps if not Tentaculites sp. then a crinoid stalk fragment, but certainly not a Michelinoceras sp. 

 

 

I agree it doesn't look like Michelinoceras


Do you have a faunal list for the Mahantango Formation in West Virginia? 

I'd like to see one.  The closest thing I have found is that website link I posted. 

 

It definitely isn't crinoid in nature. The only similar looking specimen I can find is Spyroceras.  :unsure: 

 

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”

 

Unless you can find an example of a 4 inch long Tentaculite, or a similar looking crinoid stem, ... I have to stick with Spyroceras

 

 

    Tim    -  VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

   MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png      PaleoPartner.png.30c01982e09b0cc0b7d9d6a7a21f56c6.png.a600039856933851eeea617ca3f2d15f.png     Postmaster1.jpg.900efa599049929531fa81981f028e24.jpg    VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png  VFOTM  --- APRIL - 2015  

__________________________________________________
"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."

John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~   ><))))( *>  About Me      

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4 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

 

 

I agree it doesn't look like Michelinoceras. 


Do you have a faunal list for the Mahantango Formation in West Virginia? 

I'd like to see one.  The closest thing I have found is that website link I posted. 

 

It definitely isn't crinoid in nature. The only similar looking specimen I can find is Spyroceras.  :unsure: 

 

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”

 

Unless you can find an example of a 4 inch long Tentaculite, or a similar looking crinoid stem, ... I have to stick with Spyroceras

 

 

 

There are no lists from what I know of, at least no comprehensive ones. It could take a good while piecing together what's been done (I don't know of any research being done on cephalod faunas of the area), and even then the sources I'd use would be 1950s at the newest. 

 

I'll try, however, to get it. I'll probably have to end up using lists provided by the MGS instead of the WVGS because for me the MGS papers are more accessible and the formations in MD and eastern WV are almost the same in terms of fauna. 

 

Found one, it's the best "list" I know of for the Hamilton Group in the area:

 

https://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1173/report.pdf

 

There's no mention of a Spyroceras sp. Bactrites auriculum is mentioned however, and looking at pictures of Bactrites sp. online then I think that's what we have here. 

 

1571.jpg

 

gallery_2384_1256_38997.jpg

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