Aurelius Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I've been going through some Kem Kem material and trying to identify some of it, which I know is difficult even for someone that knows what they're doing. I don't, at all, but I am reasonably confident on a few bits - I wondered if anyone would be kind enough to give their opinions on my tentative IDs? 1. First of all, and definitely very tentatively, I was hoping that this was pterosaur. Wishful thinking? It's hollow and splits off in two directions at the end. 2. Secondly, this tooth - I'm daring to dream that it might be... sauropod? It only has a tiny bit of enamel left on it, but I'm going by the heavily blunted shape. Knowing me, it's probably a very poor Spinosaurus. 3 - Fish jaw #1 - I'm not at all sure about this, but it has a row of little 'post holes' that I assumed might be for teeth. But I have no idea. Has all sorts of suggestive shapes and ridges. 4. Fish Jaw #2 - this must be a fish jaw, but can anyone suggest what type of fish? 5 - Mystery tooth - at first I thought this was a scrap of bone, but upon closer examination it is clearly a tooth. The shape seems odd to me, it's very triangular, but I have very little experience with teeth to be fair. One end is very, very slightly (a couple of mm) smaller than the other, but there is no visible curvature on any edge. It needs prepping since it's still covered in matrix on every side, but I was wondering if the triangular shape was suggestive of anything. You can just make out the row of serrations on the photo below, along the top, so it must be theropod. 6. A small limb bone from a theropod maybe? The bone is hollow and oval. Needs more prep really, when my workshop is back in action. 7. Crocodile scute. I know that this is some kind of armour, but where were these plates positioned? Down the back? And were they just below the skin? Took a lot of prep to get it this far! Sorry, I didn't set out to post so many bits. Any conformation/refutation/information appreciated. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDudeCO Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 @Troodon @Susan from PA That should help get you some ID's. I don't know that much of it can be though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Wow not easy, #1 - Looks more like a chevron than pterosaur beak #2 - Looks pretty large for a sauropod tooth, looks more like a bone. What size is it and you mention there is enamel on it, picture of enamel and base? #3 & 4 definitely jaws but have no idea on fish / reptile. #5 Very odd, not sure it's a tooth. Where are those serrations, close up picture possible. Could it be a mineral #6 Agree probably a limb bone from a theropod #7 Correct croc scute. Since it's flat my guess it's on the sides but could be very species dependent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 Thanks Troodon! 2 - here's a photo of the bit that I thought looked like enamel (I'm not so sure now I've seen it up close), and one of the base (which looks plain but could do with cleaning). 4 - Pretty sure it's a tooth - here's a super-macro of the serrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 7 hours ago, Troodon said: Wow not easy, #1 - Looks more like a chevron than pterosaur beak #2 - Looks pretty large for a sauropod tooth, looks more like a bone. What size is it and you mention there is enamel on it, picture of enamel and base? #3 & 4 definitely jaws but have no idea on fish / reptile. #5 Very odd, not sure it's a tooth. Where are those serrations, close up picture possible. Could it be a mineral #6 Agree probably a limb bone from a theropod #7 Correct croc scute. Since it's flat my guess it's on the sides but could be very species dependent I mostly agree with this. #1 chevron seems likely indeed. I'd like to see it more cleaned though to see for the other side of that fork looks in the hollow space. Pterosaurs have very thin bone walls, this seems a bit thick for that. #2 hard to tell. but I will also say that this might be bone. #5 is definitely a tooth. But the matrix on it is preventing any good ID. With a cross section like that I wouldn't be surprised if this is from a Carcharodontosaur. Most of these would benefit greatly with some more cleaning. It's hard to tell with all the matrix on them. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 #1 take a look at the texture of the beak in the photo different than bone. Like LordTrilobite said wall thickness is thin. #2 does not look smooth enough for enamel and look fibrous. Sauropod teeth typically do not have bullet ends. They can be faceted, pointed or tapered #5 definitely serrations and tooth. What is the length of what I have marked "W" and "W2" Can you point to what edge has the serrations. Hopfully it's where your thumb is. Can you take a picture of the other face. Is the "W" face broken. Matrix needs to be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I'm assuming the serrations are on the bottom of that photo. It looks like half a tooth, with that small triangular shape in the middle top being the centre of the tooth. but yeah the matrix definitely needs to be removed for a better ID. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 I wasn't so much thinking that #1 was a beak (although I hadn't discounted the possibility) - more than it might be one of the bones such as the hyoid or something? But thanks for clearing that up - that is one heck of a beak! With the tooth, both of those measurements are 21mm. The serrations are where my thumb was, as you suggested. There is some enamel loss, but the face isn't sheared off. It really does need prep, because every face is covered in matrix. Unfortunately, my compressor is broken at present, and the matrix on this tooth resists my usual dental pick/exacto-knife treatment. Here's photos of the two other faces, but I doubt they'll be much use, given the amount of matrix. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 That is some thick crust. From that angle I wouldn't have guess it's a tooth. but the cross section is unmistakable. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said: I'm assuming the serrations are on the bottom of that photo. It looks like half a tooth, with that small triangular shape in the middle top being the centre of the tooth. but yeah the matrix definitely needs to be removed for a better ID. What you say does make very good sense, actually. It must be half of a very large tooth. I was having trouble visualising how that could work, but I do see now. With the lack of much visible curvature on any edge, and an original width of 45mm, it must have been pretty impressive once upon a time. I'll still prep it when I can, it's a nice oddity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 With a crust like that and some visible serrations, there's a chance there might still be a nice partial tooth under there. And with a size like that. Carcharodontosaurid might be a safe bet. This piece isn't as nice as Troodon's Pterosaur jaw, but I scanned mine. Might be a useful example for that first bone you posted. Length or this fragment is 10.5 cm Also a partial Carcharodontosaur tooth where you can see the same kind of cross section. The width seems pretty similar. Tooth length is 4.1 cm Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 That had to one big tooth possibly anterior one with that cross section. Here are the serration of a Carch the bar is 1mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 Thank you both for your assistance - I am learning and reading as much as possible at present, and I have a way to go yet. That 3D scan of the beak is amazing - I now feel sure I'll be able to identify one, if/when I find one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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