Monica Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Hello all! Well, I've done an initial search of the Sharktooth Hill matrix that @ynot sent me this week, and I'd like some help identifying some of the larger shark teeth - please and thank you! I think I'm right about the first three but I'm not so sure about the fourth since the root is worn down or covered by matrix, so it doesn't look exactly like the others - thoughts? I'm pretty sure about the one on the right but less sure about the one on the left - I did lump them together, though, since they both have a pretty obviously serrated shoulders. (By the way - I considered that the one on the left might be Sphyrna sp. (hammerhead), but I can't see a deep nutrient groove in the root.) Thoughts and opinions are much appreciated! I think this bunch of teeth just might be my favourite because of all the beautiful colours!!! Am I right about their identity, or should they be labelled as something else? None appear to have serrations, by the way. I doubt that I'm right about these ones since Isurus oxyrinchus (and I. retroflexus, the longfin mako) are not common for Sharktooth Hill, but I don't really know what else to suggest - please help! None of them have serrations, by the way. And finally (for now), a couple of tiny little teeth: Thanks so much for your help!!! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 1 & 2 look right. 3 teeth 1 & 4 are planus, 2 is isurus, 3 I think isurus but not sure. others are lowers. 4 bottom right is isurus, others are lowers (I can not tell the difference on lowers, maybe @MarcoSr , @Al Dente or @siteseer can help.). 5 porpoise teeth all 3 (basking shark teeth have a cutting edge.) Nice start. For reference this is a basking shark tooth... 5 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 22 hours ago, ynot said: 1 & 2 look right. 3 teeth 1 & 4 are planus, 2 is isurus, 3 I think isurus but not sure. others are lowers. 4 bottom right is isurus, others are lowers (I can not tell the difference on lowers, maybe @MarcoSr , @Al Dente or @siteseer can help.). 5 porpoise teeth all 3 (basking shark teeth have a cutting edge.) Hi Tony! When you say Isurus, do you mean I. oxyrinchus or I. retroflexus? Or should I just label them Isurus sp.? Re: basking shark teeth - the ones in the picture below I've labelled as basking shark teeth - am I labeling them correctly? And the left one in the photo below I've labelled as "fish tooth" and the right one I've labelled as "porpoise tooth" - is that okay? Thanks so much for your help and your time! I'll have more photos with more requests for help in the weeks to come, I'm sure Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Can't help with ID @Monica but a nice set of choppers from @ynot! John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 4/22/2017 at 0:39 PM, Monica said: On 4/22/2017 at 0:39 PM, Monica said: I'm impressed by your desire to get your specimens ID'ed correctly, and your enthusiasm for learning. The four teeth on the left appear to all be C. planus upper teeth. The one with the largest crown is recognizable as a first upper anterior tooth. The two wire-wrapped teeth are Carcharodon sp lower lateral teeth, either planus or hastalis -- I don't think they can be ID'ed with certainty any further than that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 4/22/2017 at 0:39 PM, Monica said: The five teeth in the top row all appear to be Carcharodon sp, either planus or hastalis, lower teeth. They do not look like Isurus to me. The first tooth in the bottom row appears most likely to me to be a C hastalis lower posterior tooth. The center two teeth are also C hastalis lowers. The last tooth could possibly be Isurus, but looks to me more like aC hastalis upper lateral. Additional photos of this tooth, especially from the side, and occlusal and basal views, would help solidify an ID. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 @Monica For labeling purposes, the basking shark teeth from Sharktooth hill are Cetorhinus huddlestoni (Welton, 2014). They are a different species from those found on the east coast or the extant species, C. maximus. 1 Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 5 hours ago, JohnBrewer said: Can't help with ID @Monica but a nice set of choppers from @ynot! Thanks, John! I agree - Tony definitely sent me some nice stuff! So far I've only picked out some of the more obvious items - I plan to have another look through the matrix when I find the time - there just doesn't seem to be enough hours in a day!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 3 hours ago, sagacious said: I'm impressed by your desire to get your specimens ID'ed correctly, and your enthusiasm for learning. The four teeth on the left appear to all be C. planus upper teeth. The one with the largest crown is recognizable as a first upper anterior tooth. The two wire-wrapped teeth are Carcharodon sp lower lateral teeth, either planus or hastalis -- I don't think they can be ID'ed with certainty any further than that. 3 hours ago, sagacious said: The five teeth in the top row all appear to be Carcharodon sp, either planus or hastalis, lower teeth. They do not look like Isurus to me. The first tooth in the bottom row appears most likely to me to be a C hastalis lower posterior tooth. The center two teeth are also C hastalis lowers. The last tooth could possibly be Isurus, but looks to me more like aC hastalis upper lateral. Additional photos of this tooth, especially from the side, and occlusal and basal views, would help solidify an ID. Hi sagacious! Thanks for chiming in! As for me trying to learn and label things properly - I'm kind of becoming addicted to this little hobby and I want to be somewhat organized so I don't lose too much information along the way - my brain just isn't as good as it used to be so I need to write this stuff down - I blame my children for my reduced facility with memorizing things Just wondering - do you think I should be labeling the planus and hastalis specimens with the genus Cosmopolitodus or Carcharodon? Or should I just avoid the debate altogether by labeling them as C. planus and C. hastalis? I'm very ignorant when it comes to shark teeth so I'd appreciate your input! As for the last tooth - I'll try to get some additional pictures of it up on the forum when I get the chance - I'll alert you when I do... Thanks! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 3 hours ago, sixgill pete said: @Monica For labeling purposes, the basking shark teeth from Sharktooth hill are Cetorhinus huddlestoni (Welton, 2014). They are a different species from those found on the east coast or the extant species, C. maximus. Hi Don! Thanks for the information re: labeling the basking shark teeth - I just had them labeled as Cetorhinus sp. but now I can add a species name to the label - hooray!!! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 thought you might like this one 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Monica said: When you say Isurus, do you mean I. oxyrinchus or I. retroflexus? Or should I just label them Isurus sp.? Sorry - had another bout of dyslexia, I ment hastalis not isurus. 6 hours ago, Monica said: : basking shark teeth - the ones in the picture below I've labelled as basking shark teeth - am I labeling them correctly? Yes, these are all basking shark. ( I think they are Cetorhinus andersoni) 6 hours ago, Monica said: And the left one in the photo below I've labelled as "fish tooth" and the right one I've labelled as "porpoise tooth" - is that oka I think they are both fish teeth. Not sure about the right one though. Hastalis (and by default planus) have been moved to the "white shark" genus, ie Carcharodon 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Monica said: Hi sagacious! Thanks for chiming in! As for me trying to learn and label things properly - I'm kind of becoming addicted to this little hobby and I want to be somewhat organized so I don't lose too much information along the way - my brain just isn't as good as it used to be so I need to write this stuff down - I blame my children for my reduced facility with memorizing things Just wondering - do you think I should be labeling the planus and hastalis specimens with the genus Cosmopolitodus or Carcharodon? Or should I just avoid the debate altogether by labeling them as C. planus and C. hastalis? I'm very ignorant when it comes to shark teeth so I'd appreciate your input! As for the last tooth - I'll try to get some additional pictures of it up on the forum when I get the chance - I'll alert you when I do... Thanks! Monica Monica, These teeth should be labeled as Carcharodon hastalis and Carcharodon planus. The weight of the increasing evidence is certainly that hastalis and planus both belong in the genus Carcharodon. C hastalis is the unambiguous immediate ancestor of the Great White Shark, Carcharodon carcharias. Cheers, Eric 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 11 hours ago, doushantuo said: thought you might like this one That is a very cool fossil!!! Can you imagine finding an almost complete specimen like that, with stomach contents included?! Wouldn't that be the find of a lifetime!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 i've got another excellent "complete shark" PDF ,if anyone is interested.This one is mysterious,and has been mentioned before here on this forum yep,it would be the find that makes you keel over and faint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 11 hours ago, ynot said: Sorry - had another bout of dyslexia, I ment hastalis not isurus. Yes, these are all basking shark. ( I think they are Cetorhinus andersoni) I think they are both fish teeth. Not sure about the right one though. Hastalis (and by default planus) have been moved to the "white shark" genus, ie Carcharodon Hi Tony! Thanks for responding to the call And thanks for the information re: the identity of the basking shark teeth - perhaps I'll keep them labeled as Cetorhinus sp. as the elasmo site recommended - I'm okay with not committing to a specific species. I'll let you know when I sort through more of the matrix - I'm sure I'll be calling on you for more help in the future... Have a great day! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 44 minutes ago, doushantuo said: i've got another excellent "complete shark" PDF Where? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 20 hours ago, ynot said: Yes, these are all basking shark. ( I think they are Cetorhinus andersoni) @ynot ... Tony, the Cetorhinus from STH are C. huddlestoni ( Welton, 2014) I can send you the PDF if you don't have a copy of it. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, sixgill pete said: @ynot ... Tony, the Cetorhinus from STH are C. huddlestoni ( Welton, 2014) I can send you the PDF if you don't have a copy of it. Argh! I am sooooo confused. (or losing My mind). @Monica - are You sure You want more incorrect information from Me? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Just now, ynot said: Argh! I am sooooo confused. (or losing My mind). @Monica - are You sure You want more incorrect information from Me? Tony, you give out mucho good info, no worries on the occasional goof. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, sixgill pete said: Tony, you give out mucho good info, no worries on the occasional goof. I been confusing Hexanchus and Cetorhinus. Can I blame this on My dyslexia? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 dyslexia? I thought it was gas pains .. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 2 hours ago, ynot said: Argh! I am sooooo confused. (or losing My mind). @Monica - are You sure You want more incorrect information from Me? Of course I do, Tony! You know WAY more about fossils than I do - even if you make the odd little mistake, I'm still learning A LOT from you, so, yes, please continue to chime in!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Hi Eric (@sagacious) and Tony (@ynot)! I'm back just with some additional pictures of this tooth: Here are the extra pictures: So, what do you think? Carcharadon hastalis? Thanks again! Monica PS - Soon I'll re-visit the matrix to see what other goodies I can find... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 That is what I would call it. 2 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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