GeschWhat Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 This was found on an anthill in the Hell Creek Formation, SD. A few years ago, a paleontologist at the South Dakota School of Mines looked at it and thought it could be avian. Can anyone out there confirm this? If so, any ideas as to species? Thanks for looking! 2 Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I've not seen anything similiar from the HC. The only enantiornithine bird tooth I can recognize is Avisaurus and it's not that. If it was bird would expect it to be more recurved and compressed but I'm far an expert. My first impression was a mammal premolar tooth. See if anything rings a bell with @jpc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 Thanks, Troodon. I am so far out of my element with this one. A mammal tooth would be extremely cool as well. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I don't think it is mammalian, but I will say the same thing troodon said... I have never seen anything like this in the Hell Creek or Lance fm. It does not look lije a burd tooth to me either. Final answer: I have no idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I can't tell from the photos if the enamel actually ends where it appears or if it was worn away to that point. If it has been worn away, it looks like what a gar tooth might look like. I would need look at a couple of teeth when I get home but that's my quick reflex opinion. Jess 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 2 hours ago, siteseer said: I can't tell from the photos if the enamel actually ends where it appears or if it was worn away to that point. If it has been worn away, it looks like what a gar tooth might look like. I would need look at a couple of teeth when I get home but that's my quick reflex opinion. Jess I have some gar teeth from the same anthills, I will double check to see if there is any similarities. Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 A friend suggested I contact Mike Everhart (Oceans of Kansas) as well as a couple others. I heard back from Mike, and he is thinking reptile, maybe a small lizard. He said: "The two cutting edges (carinae) on your tooth do suggest a reptile origin.. and the worn tip, along with the hollow base would indicate that it was a shed tooth... with a portion of the root dissolved by the emerging tooth." 1 Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Hi Lori. I would disagree with reptile. Compare your tooth with that of the Bowfin (Amiid)...I believe what you have is small Melvius tooth. It is not often you find them with the root intact...very cool find (ants are such good excavators of tiny treasure!). 10 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 PFOOLEY might be on to something. K is Melvius From The book: The HC Formation and the Cretaceous Boundary issue 361 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 From http://www.rhyniechert.com... Image 172 - Melvius thomasi Bowfin fish teeth, Hell Creek Formation, Upper Cretaceous, South Dakota 3 "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 3 hours ago, PFOOLEY said: Hi Lori. I would disagree with reptile. Compare your tooth with that of the Bowfin (Amiid)...I believe what you have is small Melvius tooth. It is not often you find them with the root intact...very cool find (ants are such good excavators of tiny treasure!). Wow, you guys are awesome! I had given up on this one. I had been referred to another paleontologist who thought it was from a fish as well, but he had suggested an aspidorhynchid as a possibility (which didn't seem quite right either). After being given avian, reptile and fish as possibilities from different paleontologists, I decided to stick to the stuff I find in poop and gave it to the Forest Service paleontologist that I work with. I will pass this info on to her. Mystery solved - thank you so much! 1 Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 hour ago, doushantuo said: ...this is fantastic!...where would one find such a publication of these figures? "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 How about a reasonably long ,systematically thorough monograph? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Melvius... Good catch, PFooley. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 hour ago, doushantuo said: How about a reasonably long ,systematically thorough monograph? From me? Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 hours ago, doushantuo said: How about a reasonably long ,systematically thorough monograph? Grande and Bemis, 1998 ? "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 hours ago, PFOOLEY said: Grande and Bemis, 1998 ? Yup, I just found it in there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Good IDs! other amiid teeth from Brazil, although they are much bigger than the specimen in question picture from A. G. Martinelli et al. 2013. First fossil record of amiid fishes (Halecomorphi, Amiiformes, Amiidae) from the Late Cretaceous of Uberaba, Minas Gerais State, Brazil. Alcheringa (An Australasian Journal of Palaeontology) 3 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted November 9, 2017 Author Share Posted November 9, 2017 Are you all confident enough in this id that I can add it to the forum Collections? Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I think Melvius is a bullseye ID. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFOOLEY Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 5 hours ago, GeschWhat said: Are you all confident enough in this id that I can add it to the forum Collections? Yes. "I am glad I shall never be young without wild country to be young in. Of what avail are forty freedoms without a blank spot on the map?" ~Aldo Leopold (1887-1948) New Mexico Museum of Natural History Bulletins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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