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ozbrian

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I have a basic Diplomystus dentalus from the Green River Formation, Wyoming, U.S.A. that I want to mount in my bathroom - more as an art piece than anything else. What precautions do I need to take for humidity, etc.  

 

Thanks

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Green River fish are very stable so you shouldn't have any serious issues. I would apply a PVA or Butvar consolidant to the whole thing to seal it.

 

1 part PVA/Butvar to 50 parts acetone. Brush it on evenly and let it dry.

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I would like to see a picture of it.

If it is from the 18" layer you shouldn't have any problems, but if it is from the split fish layers they don't do so well in humidity sometimes.

Almost all the quarries up there have different host rock. Some are brittle, others are more stable. Almost everyone there digs in different layers!

 

The PVA / Butvar will work for any layer of fish, but you may want a slightly heavier coat for the split fish one.

 

If you know which layer it is from great! If not, post a picture and we can help you figure it out :)

 

Good luck!

 

-Blake

 

 

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A picture would be great.  Both what Kris and Blake has said is great advise.  In my opinion the 18 inch layer and even the harder more dense rock from the bottom cap would work great for a bathroom.  Good luck.

 

RB

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8 hours ago, FossilDudeCO said:

I would like to see a picture of it.

If it is from the 18" layer you shouldn't have any problems, but if it is from the split fish layers they don't do so well in humidity sometimes.

Almost all the quarries up there have different host rock. Some are brittle, others are more stable. Almost everyone there digs in different layers!

 

The PVA / Butvar will work for any layer of fish, but you may want a slightly heavier coat for the split fish one.

 

If you know which layer it is from great! If not, post a picture and we can help you figure it out :)

 

Good luck!

 

-Blake

 

 

 

Thanks for all the replies,

 

I know nothing of fossils, just an ongoing fascination, and when I saw this at the markets I loved the look of it. I was told some of the detail was probably painted on but I thought it would look perfect against the colours in our newly renovated bathroom. Yes, I also know that a market probably wasn't the best place to buy as well.

 

I know what PVA is (if we are talking about the woodworking glue) but have never heard of Butvar and a quick google indicates that this may not be readily available locally. There are B-98 and B-76 versions mentioned. It looks like I may have to import but the piece is only about 6 inches across so I wouldn't need a lot. 

 

Once again, thanks. 

 

 

IMG_0303.JPG

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@ozbrian

That is a fish from the split fish layers. It is a lower density rock that may not do so well over time in the humidity.

I can see that almost all of the fins have some paint on them, as well as some paint on the head, BUT, all-in-all a decent fish actually!

The verts are in there, and there may be paint on some of the ribs, but it is hard to tell. If you are REALLY curious snap a close-up of the body and I can tell you.

 

If you were in the US I would be happy to send you a bit of paraloid to do the sealing on this, but shipping will be waaaay more than it is worth!

 

A lot of the guys in Wyoming use Elmer's School Glue. Just a white glue mixed with water, about 1 part glue to 10 parts water to seal these.

 

It is an acceptable method, however It will:

 

A: make your rock a bit darker and shinier

B: turn yellowish over time

C: may not do any better in the humidity

 

I keep all of my fish away from the kitchen or the bathroom :P But my wife is messy!

 

You did well on getting a pretty decent fish!

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On 6/19/2017 at 7:05 AM, FossilDudeCO said:

I would like to see a picture of it.

If it is from the 18" layer you shouldn't have any problems, but if it is from the split fish layers they don't do so well in humidity sometimes.

Almost all the quarries up there have different host rock. Some are brittle, others are more stable. Almost everyone there digs in different layers!

 

The PVA / Butvar will work for any layer of fish, but you may want a slightly heavier coat for the split fish one.

 

If you know which layer it is from great! If not, post a picture and we can help you figure it out :)

 

Good luck!

 

-Blake

 

 

By the way, I have been reading Lance Grande's new book, The Lost World of Fossil Lake: Snapshots from deep time, and the term "split-fish layer" is out of vogue.  It's now called the "sandwich layer", apparently because "split-fish" has been used inconsistently to describe various layers in the past.  Although with so many fish out there on the market I doubt common usage wil change very soon.

 

Nice fish, by the way.  I agree that PVA (Elmer's glue) wouldn't be a good choice for a bathroom display.  I have used it successfully on fish I dug from the split-fish layer (oops, sandwich layer...).  I use the clear version, not the white version, and the color change is minimal.  Not sure about long term stability, though.  I have also used Duco cement diluted 1:1 in acetone and it seems to work ok.  Could this be an easier-to-find alternative for a bathroom display?

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Elmer's glue (PVA emulsion) clear or white is not the best long term solution IMHO. It tends to yellow and become unstable over time and it only provides a shallow surface coating. Also, emulsions are very difficult to remove.

 

McGean B-15 (formerly Vinac) pure PVA beads dissolved in acetone to make a solution are VERY stable over long periods and are indefinitely reversible with acetone. When applied properly, it produces a very deep, moisture resistant coating.

 

Paraloid and Butvar operate pretty much the same as B-15. There's a reason museums use one of these three products for almost all of their consolidation and adhesive needs and not retail grade adhesives or furniture finishes like polyurethane or shellac. All of these products have been shown to degrade over time (some severely with catastrophic results).

 

If you have no other option than a substandard sealant, you have to decide how important the longevity and value of the specimen is to you personally and go from there.

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22 hours ago, FossilDudeCO said:

@ozbrian

That is a fish from the split fish layers. It is a lower density rock that may not do so well over time in the humidity.

I can see that almost all of the fins have some paint on them, as well as some paint on the head, BUT, all-in-all a decent fish actually!

The verts are in there, and there may be paint on some of the ribs, but it is hard to tell. If you are REALLY curious snap a close-up of the body and I can tell you.

 

If you were in the US I would be happy to send you a bit of paraloid to do the sealing on this, but shipping will be waaaay more than it is worth!

 

A lot of the guys in Wyoming use Elmer's School Glue. Just a white glue mixed with water, about 1 part glue to 10 parts water to seal these.

 

It is an acceptable method, however It will:

 

A: make your rock a bit darker and shinier

B: turn yellowish over time

C: may not do any better in the humidity

 

I keep all of my fish away from the kitchen or the bathroom :P But my wife is messy!

 

You did well on getting a pretty decent fish!

Hard to say for sure but there might also be a coprolite at the extreme left edge about in line with the fish's mouth.  Look at it under a magnifier and see if you can spot any bits of bone or other matter in it.

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Boy, google is sure getting a work out! First with all the glues, chemicals and now coprolite's. I will check it out with a magnifier tonight when I get home.

To date I have found the following on line;

"AS Project 58 - Paraloid B72, primer for cardboard models (LaserCut), Neu & Ovp. Can be diluted with acetone in 1:10. Vpe. 0.10 kg." That's about 3 1/2 ounces which I'm guessing will be enough and will cost me AUD$15 including postage from Germany.

 

I also got a price on an airtight frame - that was AUD$95, so these exceed the cost of the actual fossil :wacko:

 

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56 minutes ago, ozbrian said:

Boy, google is sure getting a work out! First with all the glues, chemicals and now coprolite's. I will check it out with a magnifier tonight when I get home.

 

 

Ha ha!  What would we do without Google?  Here's a link to a discussion with photos of fish coprolites I found in the split-fish--oops, sandwich--layer: coprolites

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20 minutes ago, Sagebrush Steve said:

Ha ha!  What would we do without Google?  Here's a link to a discussion with photos of fish coprolites I found in the split-fish--oops, sandwich--layer: coprolites

 

I may be splitting hairs but I must say I prefer the mental image of a fish sandwich to a coprolite sandwich.

 

That was a fascinating thread. Thanks.

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One final question.*

 

I found the following for sale on an Australian web site;

 

ParaB72 Tube           Paraloid B72 adhesive tube      1    45.00  

ParaB72 Beads         500g Paraloid B72 acryl resin    1    22.00  

ParaB72 Beads         1kg Paraloid B72 acryl resin      1    37.50    

ParaB72 20%           Paraloid B72 20% in acetone    1    18.00    

 

I'm thinking of the 20% solution in acetone but will this need to be diluted even further?

 

 

*This is probably not true.

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