SOS Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I got this as a gift a year or so ago. I'm do not know the location or what it is. I'd love to know what they are and also if it's the original matrix or if it's been put together. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Mosasaur tooth and fish bones from morroco, I would guess the matrix is fake, but I'm not sure. The fish bones a vertabra btw, normally labeled as enchodus but I'm not sure how true that is “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Harvey Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 1 hour ago, WhodamanHD said: Mosasaur tooth and fish bones from morroco, I would guess the matrix is fake, but I'm not sure. The fish bones a vertabra btw, normally labeled as enchodus but I'm not sure how true that is agreed with Mosasaur tooth and fish vertebrae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 2 hours ago, WhodamanHD said: Mosasaur tooth and fish bones from morroco, I would guess the matrix is fake, but I'm not sure. The fish bones a vertabra btw, normally labeled as enchodus but I'm not sure how true that is The fish verts look remarkably similar to modern catfish verts we find along the rivers here in eastern VA. https://www.google.com/search?q=catfish+vertebrae&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS556US556&tbm=isch&imgil=qMZ4ftaNdadykM%3A%3B0ryQlhz1fKIjfM%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.etsy.com%252Flisting%252F156399905%252F15-catfish-vertebrae&source=iu&pf=m&fir=qMZ4ftaNdadykM%3A%2C0ryQlhz1fKIjfM%2C_&usg=__S8RAX2iRJq-TQgxaK-GMvIqztE8%3D&biw=1366&bih=662&ved=0ahUKEwiX_eKq4PLUAhXEVD4KHSn_DboQyjcIMQ&ei=Wy1dWdfjG8Sp-QGp_rfQCw#imgrc=lsZX01zPVxfLzM: Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 21 minutes ago, SailingAlongToo said: The fish verts look remarkably similar to modern catfish verts we find along the rivers here in eastern VA. https://www.google.com/search?q=catfish+vertebrae&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS556US556&tbm=isch&imgil=qMZ4ftaNdadykM%3A%3B0ryQlhz1fKIjfM%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.etsy.com%252Flisting%252F156399905%252F15-catfish-vertebrae&source=iu&pf=m&fir=qMZ4ftaNdadykM%3A%2C0ryQlhz1fKIjfM%2C_&usg=__S8RAX2iRJq-TQgxaK-GMvIqztE8%3D&biw=1366&bih=662&ved=0ahUKEwiX_eKq4PLUAhXEVD4KHSn_DboQyjcIMQ&ei=Wy1dWdfjG8Sp-QGp_rfQCw#imgrc=lsZX01zPVxfLzM: I looked up enchodus skeletons, and the vertabra look similar. The catch is, it seems most ray finned fish have vertabra that are similarly shaped vertabra. Any Paleoicthyologists who know how to tell genus from some verts watching? “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I agree with the others for mosasaur tooth and fish vertebrae. This fossil most probably comes from Khouribga, in Morocco, as that's the place where about 90% of mosasaur fossils come from. @LordTrilobite will probably know the species of the mosasaur tooth, and might also be able to tell if the matrix is real or fake. He's the Morocco fossils expert of this forum! Best regards, Max Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 21 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said: I looked up enchodus skeletons, and the vertabra look similar. The catch is, it seems most ray finned fish have vertabra that are similarly shaped vertabra. Any Paleoicthyologists who know how to tell genus from some verts watching? I guess they could do the fire test with a match or the "stinky" fossil test to see if the verts are indeed fossilized. I've been proven right many times about whether something is or isn't a fossil simply with the "stinky" fossil test. Though, I guess if its a good fake the faker could have cured the bones before putting them in the matrix. Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 The fossils aren't fake but they have been individually put in manufactured matrix. These are really common. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Those fish bones are too fragile to place into matrix. They are pretty common too so that wouldn't be worth the trouble. The piece of matrix looks pretty natural to me. No red flags. Mosasaur teeth however, are often placed into pieces of natural matrix. But I don't see any evidence of that here. This looks completely natural. The mosasaur tooth looks like it could be Prognathodon sp. This looks like a typical Khouribga, Morocco fossil. So that's very likely where it's from. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOS Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 45 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said: Those fish bones are too fragile to place into matrix. They are pretty common too so that wouldn't be worth the trouble. The piece of matrix looks pretty natural to me. No red flags. Mosasaur teeth however, are often placed into pieces of natural matrix. But I don't see any evidence of that here. This looks completely natural. The mosasaur tooth looks like it could be Prognathodon sp. This looks like a typical Khouribga, Morocco fossil. So that's very likely where it's from. I'm getting mixed comments here, should i take some more photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 The fish part is completely natural for sure. But it wouldn't hurt having more photos of the mosasaur tooth and the area around it. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOS Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 More pictures added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Harvey Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 An indication of size could be helpful also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 The Moroccan matrix could be natural with the tooth and the fish vertebrae embedded in it or attached. Usually these Moroccan matrices have the Mosasaur tooth attached. People, who make this kind of work, escavate a little hole in the matrix to accomodate the tooth, and use a glue-phosphatic sand (same as the matrix)- mixture, soluble in water, to attach the tooth. That region of the matrix is a little harder to prep than the other parts. On the other side, I'm wondering, how could a human artifact imitate the displacement of vertebrae from the column aligned perfectly, at that scale. Your vertebrae are at the surface of the matrix, but mine were in the middle. Here are similar ones prepped by me, with Mosasaur teeth attached to the surface (glued to the matrix). If you want to see what could the matrix reveal after a very careful prep, take a look at this topic. In my opinion, the tooth was ulteriorly attached to the matrix, while the vertebrae were in the matrix from the beginning. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOS Posted July 6, 2017 Author Share Posted July 6, 2017 Thanks everyone for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 I've seen several of these similar associations before hence my comment. I think the tooth has been placed there. Of course there is a test but it's destructive and that is putting in water. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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