Inner Amethyst Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 (edited) Hey!! Are these cephalopods? More specifically Dawsonoceras? Found in Vaughn Ontario near a stormwater pond - I have a feeling it's from a local quary since this pond is a man made structure. TIA!! Edited July 13, 2017 by Inner Amethyst Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Inner Amethyst said: I have a bunch more specimens and pics but this is all I could upload due to the file sizes. You can upload more pictures in "replies" to any thread. Neat looking pieces. PS Please include location and size with Your id requests, it helps Us a lot to determine what somethings are. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inner Amethyst Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 More! Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I'd say dawsonoceras I said a fair bet, but others may know better. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inner Amethyst Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, ynot said: You can upload more pictures in "replies" to any thread. Neat looking pieces. PS Please include location and size with Your id requests, it helps Us a lot to determine what somethings are. Thanks so much!!! Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Just now, Inner Amethyst said: Thanks so much!!! No problem. And welcome to TFF! Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 These look like cross sections through Crinoid stems, to me, ... especially the one with the curve to it. Dawsonoceras was a straight shelled, orthocone nautiloid. Maybe @FossilDAWG or @Malcolmt or @Kane can chime in here when they get a moment. Regards, 4 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 On your third picture, it appears that the specimen tapers down, not a characteristic of a crinoid, but typical of cephalopods, yet I still feel it is crinoidal. Maybe an optical illusion. Anyways, nice finds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. et sp. indet. Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 +1 on crinoids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoast Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Not seeing the curved septae typical of nautiloids so +1 for crinoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inner Amethyst Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 I'm leaning more towards Crinoid myself! so hard to know for sure though. I am assuming crinoids are fairly common? Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Inner Amethyst said: . I am assuming crinoids are fairly common? As a family - yes, but individuals can be rare. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 They are all echinoderm remains, crinoids, not cephalopods. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. et sp. indet. Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 20 hours ago, Inner Amethyst said: I am assuming crinoids are fairly common? That's the common mistake... If you find a new dinosaur species, you won't say: hey, animal fossils are extremely common, nothing interesting here. It's always the question of the taxonomic level. Same with crinoids. By their own - common. Level up: echinoderms (to which crinoids belong) - obviously even more common. Deuterostomes (to which echinoderms belong) - yet even more common. Few levels down: a specific crinoid species - might be extremely rare. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inner Amethyst Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 newbie question!!! I have been looking into Crinoid stem fossils and they seem to match pretty well to what I have. based on Wikipedia: Crinoids are marine animals that make up the class Crinoidea of the echinoderms (phylum Echinodermata). Am I correct to assume that these (crinoids) are the lowest classification of echinoderms? What are the specific crinoid species? I think what is the fun in finding these if you don't know what they are and how they came about. History lesson please if anyone cares to share! Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Inner Amethyst said: newbie question!!! I have been looking into Crinoid stem fossils and they seem to match pretty well to what I have. based on Wikipedia: Crinoids are marine animals that make up the class Crinoidea of the echinoderms (phylum Echinodermata). Am I correct to assume that these (crinoids) are the lowest classification of echinoderms? What are the specific crinoid species? I think what is the fun in finding these if you don't know what they are and how they came about. History lesson please if anyone cares to share! The amount of crinoid species is mind boggling, there is sometimes genuses restricted to only one formation, and often times genuses that worldwide have many representatives. Crinoid is the class, within it are a few other sub classifications (due to the large amount of them) that indicate phylogenic relationships. Within those are the genus and the species (Ex. Pentacrinites fossilis). Echinodermata is a diverse phylum in and of itself. It's includes sea urchins, blastoids, cystoids, paracrinoids, starfish, brittlestars, sand dollars, and more. For evolutionary history and phylogenic relationships, I suggest you dig into that all-knowing source of Wikipedia. 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inner Amethyst Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 minute ago, WhodamanHD said: The amount of crinoid species is mind boggling, there is sometimes gen uses restricted to only one formation, and often times gen uses that worldwide have many representatives. Crinoid is the class, within it are a few other sub classifications (due to the large amount of them) that indicate phylogenic relationships. Within those are the genus and the species (Ex. Pentacrinites fossilis). Echinodermata is a diverse phylum in and of itself. It's includes sea urchins, blastoids, cystoids, paracrinoids, starfish, brittlestars, sand dollars, and more. For evolutionary history and phylogenic relationships, I suggest you dig into that all-knowing source of Wikipedia. Oh boy.. looks like I'm heading down this rabbit hole.... Im mostly interested in finding out what kind of crinoid I found specifically. I have a feeling I will be chasing this for a LOOONG time. Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 Just now, Inner Amethyst said: Oh boy.. looks like I'm heading down this rabbit hole.... Im mostly interested in finding out what kind of crinoid I found specifically. I have a feeling I will be chasing this for a LOOONG time. Ah, that makes sense. I specifically cannot tell the species (my first vote was cephalopod beacuase I thought the walls were to thick) but others might, especially if you manage to find out the formation, maybe using a geologic map. Paleontologist record the biota of formations, so if you find that out it narrows it down. Then the knowledgeable people (other than myself) can use anatomical details. However, I fear it may be impossible with just the stem. Often a solid ID requires the calyx and arms as well. 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inner Amethyst Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 minute ago, WhodamanHD said: Ah, that makes sense. I specifically cannot tell the species (my first vote was cephalopod beacuase I thought the walls were to thick) but others might, especially if you manage to find out the formation, maybe using a geologic map. Paleontologist record the biota of formations, so if you find that out it narrows it down. Then the knowledgeable people (other than myself) can use anatomical details. However, I fear it may be impossible with just the stem. Often a solid ID requires the calyx and arms as well. Looks like I will heading back to the pond on my lunch break! the sad thing is this is all broken up material since it was brought in to be used as fill so the chances of finding a more complete specimen is pretty much not going to happen. On the bright side... no one knows about the finds or have interest in fossils so it is my private little dig site Steph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Inner Amethyst said: Looks like I will heading back to the pond on my lunch break! the sad thing is this is all broken up material since it was brought in to be used as fill so the chances of finding a more complete specimen is pretty much not going to happen. On the bright side... no one knows about the finds or have interest in fossils so it is my private little dig site Good lucks at the site! There's always a chance, the complete ones are there just hiding “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Inner Amethyst said: Looks like I will heading back to the pond on my lunch break! the sad thing is this is all broken up material since it was brought in to be used as fill so the chances of finding a more complete specimen is pretty much not going to happen. On the bright side... no one knows about the finds or have interest in fossils so it is my private little dig site 1 hour ago, Inner Amethyst said: Oh boy.. looks like I'm heading down this rabbit hole.... Im mostly interested in finding out what kind of crinoid I found specifically. I have a feeling I will be chasing this for a LOOONG time. Crinoids are hard to identify without a well preserved calyx If you can figure out what geological Formation these are coming from, (where the fill is coming from - what quarry in what province) you could research to see if a faunal list for that specific Formation exists. That's probably the best way to narrow down what genus of crinoid you have. I don't think an id to species level is possible, from the bits you have. 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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