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RyanDye

Found this big chunk of what I think is petrified wood in North Carolina blue ridge mountains. If it is petrified wood is there any way to identify the genus or species I was thinking about trying to enter it in the fossil of the month topic since I actually found it less than a month ago. Thoughts on what it is?

597230d88adab_large.20170721_1149081.jpg.d0b3250ebcc40a7dffb1ea80f90fe276.jpg597230db822d0_large.20170721_1149381.jpg.b628e0b1880c8cd5f40e60ad61db0566.jpg597230d5d2132_large.20170721_1148351.jpg.55f7da3a554d53d154fcef01f0ac7f9a.jpg597230dd8fd7c_large.20170721_1151191.jpg.9fa21cc0632a384f58e42eca8be67ecf.jpg

 

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RyanDye
8 minutes ago, ynot said:

Does not look like petrified wood to Me. Looks like a schist.

 

To identify petrified wood to species there has to be very good cellular preservation and You need to look at the cross section and lateral views to determine the cell and vesicle layout.

Ah thanks, any tips to identify real petrified wood?

 

@ynot Also, one more thing to add before the discussion is ended I can't scratch it leaving a mark is that normal for schist?

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RyanDye

It also breaks very easily it seems... flakey I guess you can't really tell without a physical examination. 

 

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FossilDAWG

The Blue Ridge Mountains are all metamorphic and igneous rock.  Not fossiliferous.  However lots and lots of schist, which this rock appears to be.

 

Don

 

PS.  The Fossil of the Month contest requires that the fossil be found in the current month, or if it was found earlier then it must have received significant preparation in the current month, and you must show "before" and "after" photos to prove the major prep.  Merely having been found less than a month ago is not adequate, unless you are talking on the very last day of the month.

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ynot
3 hours ago, Ryan Dye said:

Ah thanks, any tips to identify real petrified wood?

 

@ynot Also, one more thing to add before the discussion is ended I can't scratch it leaving a mark is that normal for schist?

Identifying a rock as a piece of petrified wood can be very difficult as petrified wood can take on many different appearances, dependent on the formation and replacement mineral(S).

The best way to know is to make sure that the formation is of the correct type to have petrified wood and that it has been found there before. Then to look at some material from that site for a comparison.

If You are not sure of these things then look for wood grain structure and annual growth rings (not always evident.).

There are many rocks/minerals that can appear to be fossil wood but are not. You need to familiarize Yourself with these things to be able to discount them when looking for wood.

 

There are different types of schist, some are hard and some are not.

 

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WhodamanHD

Take a look at geologic maps, they are essential to finding fossils. If you are in a place with sedimentary rocks, there is a chance of fossils, if not the chance is extremely low (so low that if it was a plane, it would probably crash)

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ynot
3 hours ago, WhodamanHD said:

Take a look at geologic maps, they are essential to finding fossils. If you are in a place with sedimentary rocks, there is a chance of fossils, if not the chance is extremely low (so low that if it was a plane, it would probably crash)

This is mostly true, but many petrified wood sites are from volcanic eruptions burying a forest. And some other well known sites, like Ashfall Fossil Beds in Nebraska, are also from non sedimentary rock formations.

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WhodamanHD
11 minutes ago, ynot said:

This is mostly true, but many petrified wood sites are from volcanic eruptions burying a forest. And some other well known sites, like Ashfall Fossil Beds in Nebraska, are also from non sedimentary rock formations.

Yes, and metamorphic rocks sometimes contain fossils, but these are exceptions that are rare, it is not a habit of mine to go searching for fossils in igneous and metamorphic rocks. I would also count ash as a sediment, and it's deposits as sedimentary rocks, I'm not sure how scientific that is, but it's my opinion.

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ynot
9 hours ago, Ryan Dye said:

Found this big chunk of what I think is petrified wood in North Carolina blue ridge mou

If You look at the end view of Your rock You can see that the center is quite granular (blue) and the "rings" are inconsistent and branching (red).

These are not traits found in petrified wood.

5972bf68f2cea_notwooda.thumb.jpg.4bfe8522ae56fc772981c212fc824b45.jpg

 

 

After reviewing Your pictures, I think this may be a sandstone rather than a schist.

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ynot
12 minutes ago, WhodamanHD said:

Yes, and metamorphic rocks sometimes contain fossils, but these are exceptions that are rare, it is not a habit of mine to go searching for fossils in igneous and metamorphic rocks. I would also count ash as a sediment, and it's deposits as sedimentary rocks, I'm not sure how scientific that is, but it's my opinion.

So Pompeii was buried by a non volcanic event?

An ash fall is the direct result of a volcanic eruption. As is a volcanic mudflow (lahar).

Neither of these are considered to be sedimentary rock, yet both can have fossils.

Both of these types of formations are common fossil sites west of the rockies.

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RyanDye

What about these?

petrified-wood-log-100cm-1.jpg

1.jpg

burnham9.jpg

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ynot
7 minutes ago, Ryan Dye said:

What about these?

The pictures are too small to see any detail. They are petrified wood pictures, and they look like they are in a volcanic rock. (known sites). They could be casts or mineral replacement, but it is impossible to tell from these pictures.

 

As I have said-- Your piece is not petrified wood, it is one of the rocks that has a superficial appearance of wood.

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RyanDye
Just now, ynot said:

The pictures are too small to see any detail. They are petrified wood pictures, and they look like they are in a volcanic rock. (known sites). They could be casts or mineral replacement, but it is impossible to tell from these pictures.

 

As I have said-- Your piece is not petrified wood, it is one of the rocks that has a superficial appearance of wood.

I said in that instance.

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doushantuo

There are many ways to do research on a piece of possible petrified wood.

Ultrastructural study,X-ray diffraction..

Agreed that the piece looks like metamorphic rock  

NB: most petrologists consider Blue Ridge "polymetamorphic"

 

Underneath: silica abundances tracing treerings,first example alpha-quartz,second an opalized example

belmbercofimages.jpg

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RyanDye

Also, you should see this since you didn't know about sedimentary rocks in the blue ridge mountain formation I found it in the Za area in the blue range mountains so you are incorrect. @FossilDAWG20170721_202504-min.thumb.jpg.8cce07cfdd5406a5d0f53a2c078e13a9.jpg20170721_202428-min.thumb.jpg.4b00f9d07cec68202524ed421512e61a.jpg

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WhodamanHD
17 minutes ago, ynot said:

So Pompeii was buried by a non volcanic event?

An ash fall is the direct result of a volcanic eruption. As is a volcanic mudflow (lahar).

Neither of these are considered to be sedimentary rock, yet both can have fossils.

Both of these types of formations are common fossil sites west of the rockies.

Ash is volcanic, but it acts like a sediment, it Covers and preserves things, it is deposited in many ways (rivers, the atmosphere, winds). I know it doesn't fit the technical description of sedimentary, but I view it as so. Igneous I view as created by lava,magma, magma chambers, and other molten rocks, unless these are broken from there original places and redeposited. I know very little of volcanic mudflows so I cannot state anything of those. Really, sedimentary, igneous, metamorphic are as most scientific concepts (planets, taxon, life) artificial boundaries describing things that lack real divisions. Again, I know it's unscientific, and incorrect in most definitions, but it's a view I hold.

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ynot
3 minutes ago, Ryan Dye said:

I said in that instance.

No You did not.

 

You said...

 

13 minutes ago, Ryan Dye said:

What about these?

 

 

Next...

7 minutes ago, Ryan Dye said:

Also, you should see this since you didn't know about sedimentary rocks in the blue ridge mountain formation I found it in the Za area

You should look closer before You sight information.

Za is sedimentary rock of PRECAMBRIAN AGE, sorry but there were no woody plants back then.

 

 

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RyanDye
Just now, ynot said:

No You did not.

 

You said...

 

 

 

Next...

You should look closer before You sight information.

Za is sedimentary rock of PRECAMBRIAN AGE, sorry but there were no woody plants back then.

 

 

I misread your comment.

1 minute ago, ynot said:

No You did not.

 

You said...

 

 

 

Next...

You should look closer before You sight information.

Za is sedimentary rock of PRECAMBRIAN AGE, sorry but there were no woody plants back then.

 

 

I did not say I was trying to prove that it was a fossil in that statement. :dinosmile:

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doushantuo

Is this about mapreading skills?:D

 

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RyanDye
45 minutes ago, ynot said:

If You look at the end view of Your rock You can see that the center is quite granular (blue) and the "rings" are inconsistent and branching (red).

These are not traits found in petrified wood.

5972bf68f2cea_notwooda.thumb.jpg.4bfe8522ae56fc772981c212fc824b45.jpg

 

 

After reviewing Your pictures, I think this may be a sandstone rather than a schist.

1

I used a Moh's scale toughness kit (professional with diamond for ten not cheap kid's kit) sadly it cannot be sandstone as its hardness was well above 2.6 I only used a very small piece of the specimen to not damage it I easily snapped a small sample off practically with no effort although it may be brittle it is actually quite hard! The result of the toughness was 6.5 - 7

It may very well be not petrified wood but I do not have a definite answer to what it actually is. Sandstone is not found where I discovered it I also would like to note it was found in a stream bed. 

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supertramp

at first glance I would say slickenside 

 

ciao

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ynot
12 minutes ago, Ryan Dye said:

I did not say I was trying to prove that it was a fossil in that statement.

You do not know what You said....

 

28 minutes ago, Ryan Dye said:

 you didn't know about sedimentary rocks in the blue ridge mountain formation I found it in the Za area in the blue range mountains so you are incorrect

This sounds like You are saying that I have misidentified Your rock because  I do not know the formation and iit is what You think!

How did You determine what I know about the blue ridge mountains?

So-How am I incorrect?

 

3 minutes ago, Ryan Dye said:

used a Moh's scale toughness kit (professional with diamond for ten not cheap kid's kit) sadly it cannot be sandstone as its hardness was well above 2.6 I only used a very small piece of the specimen to not damage it I easily snapped a small sample off practically with no effort although it may be brittle it is actually quite hard! The result of the toughness was 6.5 - 7

The mohs hardness scale is for testing mineral specimens and does not work for most rock as they are made of many minerals.

Sandstone is typically a quartz (hardness of 6.5 to 7) mineral rock and can be very hard .

 

 

 

I am getting tired of You telling Me I am wrong and then siteing incorrect information to back up Your dubious claims. You need to do a better job of checking Your information.

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RyanDye
3 minutes ago, ynot said:

You do not know what You said....

 

This sounds like You are saying that I have misidentified Your rock because  I do not know the formation and iit is what You think!

How did You determine what I know about the blue ridge mountains?

So-How am I incorrect?

 

The mohs hardness scale is for testing mineral specimens and does not work for most rock as they are made of many minerals.

Sandstone is typically a quartz (hardness of 6.5 to 7) mineral rock and can be very hard .

 

 

 

I am getting tired of You telling Me I am wrong and then siteing incorrect information to back up Your dubious claims. You need to do a better job of checking Your information.

6

From what I see the quartz sandstone does not look much like my specimen if you could provide me with a picture showing this it would be appreciated. 

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