Large Bones from Kem Kem (Morocco)

[Flx]

Hi
I recently acquired a "pile" of 10 bone fossils/fragments from Morocco. It was sort of a surprise paket since I didn't know what I am buying exactly. However, what I received looks extremly interesting to me.
For a start, I would like to show one of the big ones. Thank you for your time and your thoughts.

 

This is the information I received from the seller (not the same person that found the fossils so it is potentially inaccurate or wrong):
- Found in Kem Kem fossil beds in Eastern Morocco near the border with Algeria
- Cenomanian
 

Some observations:
- The bone seems to be fossilized and is quite heavy
- The ends of the bone are broken off and missing unfortunately

- The bone is HUGE! 

 

Ok, lets attach some pictures now...

Bone Nr. 1

 

Edited July 22, 2017 by Flx

[The Speeding Carno]

 

3 hours ago, Flx said:

Hi
I recently acquired a "pile" of 10 bone fossils/fragments from Morocco. It was sort of a surprise paket since I didn't know what I am buying exactly. However, what I received looks extremly interesting to me.
For a start, I would like to show one of the big ones. Thank you for your time and your thoughts.

 

This is the information I received from the seller (not the same person that found the fossils so it is potentially inaccurate or wrong):
- Found in Kem Kem fossil beds in Eastern Morocco near the border with Algeria
- Cenomanian
 

Some observations:
- The bone seems to be fossilized and is quite heavy
- The ends of the bone are broken off and missing unfortunately

- The bone is HUGE! 

 

Ok, lets attach some pictures now...

Bone Nr. 1

 

That first fossil looks similar to a rib section, making it hard to ID. Congrats on the fossil!

[Flx]

Isn't a bit wide for a rib? That would be a really massive animal.

[izak_]

@Troodon @LordTrilobite

[Flx]

2nd bone fossil. Even bigger...

 

This one has obviously been glued/reconstructed in the middle. However, as far as I can tell the two pieces do belong together. Also, there is probably some reconstruction to the right end of the bone using matrix. 

I think it could be a rib. However, it is really straight and I would have expected more curvature. Probably it has been flattened due to some geological movements.

[MeargleSchmeargl]

Individual bones (particularly incomplete ones) Are pretty hard to ID. Any info from where/who you got it from?

[LordTrilobite]

There seems to be a LOT of glue on both pieces. I'd suggest cleaning them first. That would help in trying to ID them. Though while the size will eliminate a lot of animals, these bones do not have a lot of diagnostic features. The hollow in the first bone points towards Theropod. There are a number of gigantic Theropods in Kem Kem. There's Spinosaurus of course as well as Carcharodontosaurus. But there is also Sigilmassasaurus, another Spinosaurid (though I don't know how big that one gets) and a few other Carcharodontosaurids.

 

The second bone has so much junk on it I don't think we can say anything about that one at the moment really. It's not clear if it's just repaired or that it's an atual composite. It's also not clear how much of the ends has been altered. This one especially is in need of some prepping.

 

Otherwise cool big bones though!

[The Speeding Carno]

1 hour ago, Flx said:

Isn't a bit wide for a rib? That would be a really massive animal.

I'm not entirely sure, but there were a few large dinosaurs in the Kem Kem, but as LordTrilobite said neither have diagnostic features. Still cool purchases though!

 

 

[kolleamm]

My best guess is the second bone is either a tibia or a forearm radius.

[Flx]

10 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

There seems to be a LOT of glue on both pieces. I'd suggest cleaning them first. That would help in trying to ID them. Though while the size will eliminate a lot of animals, these bones do not have a lot of diagnostic features. The hollow in the first bone points towards Theropod. There are a number of gigantic Theropods in Kem Kem. There's Spinosaurus of course as well as Carcharodontosaurus. But there is also Sigilmassasaurus, another Spinosaurid (though I don't know how big that one gets) and a few other Carcharodontosaurids.

 

The second bone has so much junk on it I don't think we can say anything about that one at the moment really. It's not clear if it's just repaired or that it's an atual composite. It's also not clear how much of the ends has been altered. This one especially is in need of some prepping.

 

Otherwise cool big bones though!

 

Right, I spent a lot of time looking at the fossils found in that region and the only ones I found in this size-scale were Spinosaurids and Carcharodontosaurids (which is totally exciting to me  ). I am happy to read that you came to the same preliminary conclusion.

 

I am currently trying to find a way to clean the fossils which will not be easy. It seems that the fossils have been coated with a pretty robust polymer. Maybe it is something like white glue... This layer cannot be dissolved in water or acetone (at least not in a short amount of time). Anyway, I have some other smaller bone fragments that I can use to make some tests. If you have a good idea on how to clean the fossils please let me know.

[LordTrilobite]

Remember that there are also Sauropods and gigantic crocodiles in Kem Kem. So large bones does not immediately equal Theropod.

 

I clean all my Kem Kem material by hand with dental picks. I generally work with smaller specimens as large ones are expensive.

This does take quite a long time when there's glue involved though.

[Flx]

Ok, I will make some test with mechanical removal of the glue. I hope this works.

 

I looked at the crocodile skeleton reconstructions. I could not find a bone that was straight and >80cm long. Therefore I excluded crocs. However, in case that the long bone is actually a composite that conclusion could be wrong. Kem Kem Sauropods would be another option of course. Unfortunately, I din't find a lot of information about those.

[Flx]

On 23.7.2017 at 11:24 AM, LordTrilobite said:

Remember that there are also Sauropods and gigantic crocodiles in Kem Kem. So large bones does not immediately equal Theropod.

 

I clean all my Kem Kem material by hand with dental picks. I generally work with smaller specimens as large ones are expensive.

This does take quite a long time when there's glue involved though.

 

Removing the glue is really tricky. In some places it can be removed quite easily. In other spots it sticks so hard that I am risking to damage the bone...

 

Anyway, I showed the bones to a paleantologist who studied Kem Kem dinosaurs for a couple of years. He said that the identification is not certain, but bone 1 looks like a sauropod ulna due to the roughly triradiate cross section. Bone 2 is most likely a thoracic rib.

 

[LordTrilobite]

Well that would certainly be interesting if those IDs are correct. Even if you can't remove all the glue. Removing the sections you can will help in giving the bones a more accurate ID.