Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hi all, I know what you're thinking: "Oh god, not another fossil or not seashell topic by Max! " But I need your help again. I'm pretty sure that this one is a fossil, as it is stuck in solid matrix. I'm not completely sure though. Definitely some kind of oyster/pycnodont, this one was found at the beach of Vivari (near Nafplio, Greece), at about 2m of depth (yes I dived; there were many pretty modern seashells in the area, and I eventually stumbled on this one). If there isn't enough detail visible to say, I can try to prep it a bit. The matrix is very hard though, so I can't guarantee success on the prep. What do you think of this one? Best regards, Max Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izak_ Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 What kind of rock is the matrix? Sandstone, limestone...? At first glance I'd say its fossil, but after what happened last time, I'm not so sure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Can not help with id, but definitely a fossil. 1 Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Sorry to muddy the waters, but I am not certain about it being a fossil. Many oysters grow attached to a hard substrate. I think this one is "on" but not "in" the rock. You will also notice a lot of epifauna (spiral polychaete worm tubes in particular) on the surface of both the shell and the rock, and they appear to be identical. That is not definitive of course as the shell might have been exposed for a long time, but I think it is less likely that a fossil shell would have eroded out of the matrix in a manner that makes it look as if it grew there, and then been stable for long enough for all that epifauna to attach and grow. What would help would be to identify the shell. If it is an extinct species then the question of fossil or not is solved. Don 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 My impression is that, while it may be old, the shell is on, not of, the rock. Not really definitive of the question, but I think it is a more modern shell. 3 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 19 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said: Sorry to muddy the waters, but I am not certain about it being a fossil. Many oysters grow attached to a hard substrate. I think this one is "on" but not "in" the rock. You will also notice a lot of epifauna (spiral polychaete worm tubes in particular) on the surface of both the shell and the rock, and they appear to be identical. That is not definitive of course as the shell might have been exposed for a long time, but I think it is less likely that a fossil shell would have eroded out of the matrix in a manner that makes it look as if it grew there, and then been stable for long enough for all that epifauna to attach and grow. What would help would be to identify the shell. If it is an extinct species then the question of fossil or not is solved. Don Good points. So far I'm more in the Pycnodont camp, of which many are extinct. About the epifaunal things, many of the modern shells found near it have them too. But I don't know whether this helps, because I'm pretty sure that those things attach to anything hard, regardless of whether it is fossil or not. Finally, about the oysters attaching themselves to rock, that is true (I've seen it)(mossels also do this), but I think that they are more likely to attach to the rock with the hinge area; here the hinge is clearly visible. Thanks, Max 2 minutes ago, Auspex said: My impression is that, while it may be old, the shell is on, not of, the rock. Not really definitive of the question, but I think it is a more modern shell. Thanks for the input. Read though the last paragraph in my previous reply to Don; this could easily be wrong, but I don't think it is. 49 minutes ago, ynot said: Can not help with id, but definitely a fossil. Seems like not everyone agrees Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 55 minutes ago, Foozil said: What kind of rock is the matrix? Sandstone, limestone...? At first glance I'd say its fossil, but after what happened last time, I'm not so sure Exactly, better be cautious. I'm not sure how to recognize sandstone, limestone, etc by staring at a rock though, so I can't tell. Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, Max-fossils said: Seems like not everyone agrees Not the first and probably not the last time I have been wrong. But it looks to Me like some matrix is adhered to the back of the shell. (probably wrong about that too.) Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, ynot said: Not the first and probably not the last time I have been wrong. But it looks to Me like some matrix is adhered to the back of the shell. (probably wrong about that too.) For once you're right congrats There is indeed matrix on the back of the shell. Well I think it is matrix... Not 100% sure Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Max-fossils said: There is indeed matrix on the back of the shell. Well I think it is matrix... Not 100% sure If that is the case, it lends credence to My original statement, it is a fossil. (maybe) To see if the matrix is limestone take a small chip and crush it, then add some vinegar to see if it fizzes. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just now, ynot said: If that is the case, it lends credence to My original statement, it is a fossil. (maybe) Whoa, Tony on a streak of saying correct things You're right again. Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Max-fossils said: Whoa, Tony on a streak of saying correct things You're right again. Stop it ... You'll give Me a big head. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, ynot said: Stop it ... You'll give Me a big head. Haha, I'll stop Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Like Don mentioned it is probably recent if anything just by that slight bit of luster present. It is not a Pycnodont but a jewel box bivalve genus Chama. It is worn but more than likely either C. congregata or C. macerophylla LINK. Chama bivalves attach to hard substrates as you see with your lower valve. The substrate looks to be limestone possibly from ballast or rip rap. Mike 4 "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, MikeR said: Like Don mentioned it is probably recent if anything just by that slight bit of luster present. It is not a Pycnodont but a jewel box bivalve genus Chama. It is worn but more than likely either C. congregata or C. macerophylla LINK. Chama bivalves attach to hard substrates as you see with your lower valve. The substrate looks to be limestone possibly from ballast or rip rap. Mike Thanks. Now you say it, Chama does seem to look a lot like it. Chama macerophylla seems more like mine than C. congregata. But I'm not sure if those species, if the genus, is present in Greece... Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeR Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Max-fossils said: Thanks. Now you say it, Chama does seem to look a lot like it. Chama macerophylla seems more like mine than C. congregata. But I'm not sure if those species, if the genus, is present in Greece... I guess I should have looked more closely at the previous posts as I assumed it was from Florida. So no it would not be those species but yes it is Chama. 1 "A problem solved is a problem caused"--Karl Pilkington "I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit." -- Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just now, MikeR said: I guess I should have looked more closely at the previous posts as I assumed it was from Florida. So no it would not be those species but yes it is Chama. Alright, so it's a modern () Chama sp. Still pretty cool, I didn't have this species before. I was still hoping for this one to be fossil though... Thanks everyone!!! Max 1 Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagebrush Steve Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Max-fossils said: Alright, so it's a modern () Chama sp. Still pretty cool, I didn't have this species before. I was still hoping for this one to be fossil though... Thanks everyone!!! Max Wait long enough and you will be rewarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just now, Sagebrush Steve said: Wait long enough and you will be rewarded I already have a lot of fossil seashells, but I'm a greedy person and I always want more Anyways, I'm back in the NL now, and probably won't be returning to Greece anytime soon, as we have a lot of other holiday destinations on our list. I guess you just can't have everything! Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 It looks like a pelecypod fossil to me. There are a lot of fossils cemented together like this in the quarries in south central Florida. 1 "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Max-fossils said: I already have a lot of fossil seashells, but I'm a greedy person and I always want more Anyways, I'm back in the NL now, and probably won't be returning to Greece anytime soon, as we have a lot of other holiday destinations on our list. I guess you just can't have everything! Sorry, but i am worst than you, i once brought back two poor Promotias elegans well alived, taking them for fossils. 1 "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, fifbrindacier said: Sorry, but i am worst than you, i once brought back two poor Promotias elegans well alived, taking them for fossils. Haha, bon de savoir qu'il y a encore pire que moi Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, Herb said: It looks like a pelecypod fossil to me. There are a lot of fossils cemented together like this in the quarries in south central Florida. Thanks, but I believe @MikeR already gave a conclusive ID Plus, this one is from Greece, not from Florida. Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifbrindacier Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, Max-fossils said: Haha, bon de savoir qu'il y a encore pire que moi In fact, it's not even Promotias elegans but Pomatias elegans, but i didn't want to upset Enrico (Pôrompompéo, pôrompôrompompéopéo pôpôpôvreu Macias) even if he is very elegant. Je les ai mis dans une jardinière et depuis, plus de nouvelles, les ingrats ! I put them in a window box and since, no news, ingrates ! "On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) "We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes." In memory of Doren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-fossils Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, fifbrindacier said: In fact, it's not even Promotias elegans but Pomatias elegans, but i didn't want to upset Enrico (Pôrompompéo, pôrompôrompompéopéo pôpôpôvreu Macias) even if he is very elegant. Je les ai mis dans une jardinière et depuis, plus de nouvelles, les ingrats ! I put them in a window box and since, no news, ingrates ! 1 Max Derème "I feel an echo of the lightning each time I find a fossil. [...] That is why I am a hunter: to feel that bolt of lightning every day." - Mary Anning >< Remarkable Creatures, Tracy Chevalier Instagram: @world_of_fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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