Monica Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hi all! I've decided to give all of my Peace River, Florida stuff to my daughter (I've decided to focus on invertebrates whereas Viola loves/wants everything, so I'm giving her all of the shark teeth that I've acquired so she can share them with her classmates). I've already been able to identify the stuff that Viola had allowed me to keep (thanks to people here on TFF!), but I never bothered to identify the stuff she chose to keep, so I'm asking for your help once again. I was able to identify a couple of teeth that she had chosen to keep (e.g., snaggletooth, sand tiger, tiger), but I'm not sure of a few of them, so here they are: The top 3 have serrations, although the 2 on the left (lighter-coloured ones) are less obvious than the 1 on the right. I thought that they might all be "requiem sharks" (Carcharhinus sp.). The middle one has serrations along the shoulder but no obvious serrations on the crown (at least I can't see them!) - I figured that it might be a lemon shark (Negaprion sp.), but I'm not ruling out Carcharhinus sp. since their lower teeth are different from their upper teeth (I think...). The "unknown" one has very clear serrations - perhaps this one is also Carcharhinus sp. since it doesn't seem to have the shape of tiger, hammerhead, or snaggletooth shark teeth, but I'm not sure... Thanks in advance for your help! Once these are identified I'll add them to the already-labeled baggies and give them all to Viola Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macrophyseter Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Im no expert in lesser known shark teeth, but my best guess is that the negaprion guess could be also a lower carcharinus tooth as well. Might be wrong thou 1 If you're a fossil nut from Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, or Torrance, feel free to shoot me a PM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Hmmm, Guesses with minimal info. I need sizes and more detailed closeups. Are you SURE about serrations on the 1st 2 teeth. I can not make out any serrations and they look like Makos to me. The 3rd tooth is likely a Great White but may be a Meg. I need a better photo and size. Agree with Lemon shark on center tooth, No idea on last 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase_E Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 The first two teeth look to be some type of Carcharhinus sp. The last tooth on the top row looks like a Great White. I believe you correctly identified the Negaprion sp. correct. The last tooth, labeled "unknown", to me looks like another Carcharhinus sp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 7 hours ago, Shellseeker said: Hmmm, Guesses with minimal info. I need sizes and more detailed closeups. Are you SURE about serrations on the 1st 2 teeth. I can not make out any serrations and they look like Makos to me. The 3rd tooth is likely a Great White but may be a Meg. I need a better photo and size. Agree with Lemon shark on center tooth, No idea on last Hi Shellseeker! Sorry about not including a ruler - I didn't include one the last time, but I forgot that the last time I put the teeth on lined paper so size could be estimated from that, whereas this time I put them on a yellow post-it which you wouldn't have known, making size estimation impossible - so sorry about that The top three teeth are between 1cm and 1.5cm in length from root to tip, the middle tooth is 0.8cm from root to tip, and the bottom tooth in the corner is 1.6cm from root to tip. Re: serrations on the first two teeth - I've just looked at them under my 10X loupe and it's a bit hard to tell. The middle tooth in the top row appears to have rough/water-worn serrations almost (but not quite) down to the tip, whereas the one on the left in the top row has a small shoulder that appears to be serrated, but the actual crown appears to lack serrations. I'll try to get some close-ups this afternoon when the sun is shining... Thanks! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 @Shellseeker Here are some better individual pictures: Tooth #1: Tooth #2: Tooth #3: Tooth #4: Tooth #5: Thanks again! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Monica, Just confirming- these are Peace River teeth? If so, Mako, Mako, Great White, Lemon, Tiger. The 3rd might be a meg but I think GW is a better guess even though that tooth is rare in the Peace River. i would love to hear from other Peace River hunters. jack 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) Teeth numbers 1 and 2 appear to me to possibly be upper lateral Negaprion, based on the upright distally-curved non-serrated blade, and serrated shoulders. Compare those teeth with web photos of other upper lateral lemon shark teeth, and see what you think. Number 3 appears to me to be Carcharhinus, possibly an upper from C leucas, based on the shape of the labial margin between the tooth and crown, and I suspect the shoulders on that tooth would have continued following the pattern of C leucas teeth, had they not been broken. The shape of the lingual margin and shoulders does not suggest C carcharodon to me, and a photo of the labial side might help to consolidate opinions on this tooth. I think you are likely correct with your ID of tooth #4. Tooth number 5 looks like a strong candidate for a C leucas upper lateral, and I suspect the muddiness with ID on that tooth as well has to do with the shoulders being broken off. Edited July 26, 2017 by sagacious edited for clarity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Shellseeker said: Monica, Just confirming- these are Peace River teeth? If so, Mako, Mako, Great White, Lemon, Tiger. The 3rd might be a meg but I think GW is a better guess even though that tooth is rare in the Peace River. i would love to hear from other Peace River hunters. jack Hi Jack! Yes, these are all from the Peace River in Florida - I received them as part of an auction that I "won" back in February care of @digit. They are all really quite small - from around 1cm to 1.5cm in length. These were some of the ones my daughter chose so I never bothered to try to identify them, but now that I'm giving her all of the teeth I've acquired over the past year, I'd like to have them all identified, if possible - that way, if/when she gives them to some of her friends, she can tell them which shark each tooth came from Thanks for your input! Monica 1 minute ago, sagacious said: Teeth numbers 1 and 2 appear to me to possibly be upper lateral Negaprion, based on the upright distally-curved non-serrated blade, and serrated shoulders. Compare those teeth with web photos of other upper lateral lemon shark teeth, and see what you think. Number 3 appears to me to be Carcharhinus, possibly an upper from C leucas, based on the shape of the labial margin between the tooth and crown, and I suspect the shoulders on that tooth would have continued following the pattern of C leucas teeth, had they not been broken. The shape of the labial margin and shoulders does not suggest C carcharodon to me, and a photo of the lingual side might help to consolidate opinions on this tooth. I think you are likely correct with your ID of tooth #4. Tooth number 5 looks like a strong candidate for a C leucas upper lateral, and I suspect the muddiness with ID on that tooth as well has to do with the shoulders being broken off. I'm off to make dinner, but I'll look into your suggested identities when I have a chance - my daughter is only 6 (almost 7!) so she doesn't really care to have them identified, but I'd like to put at least a genus to them, if possible - I like to complete a job once I've started it Thanks for chiming in! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, Monica said: Hi Jack! Yes, these are all from the Peace River in Florida - I received them as part of an auction that I "won" back in February care of @digit. They are all really quite small - from around 1cm to 1.5cm in length. These were some of the ones my daughter chose so I never bothered to try to identify them, but now that I'm giving her all of the teeth I've acquired over the past year, I'd like to have them all identified, if possible - that way, if/when she gives them to some of her friends, she can tell them which shark each tooth came from Thanks for your input! Monica I'm off to make dinner, but I'll look into your suggested identities when I have a chance - my daughter is only 6 (almost 7!) so she doesn't really care to have them identified, but I'd like to put at least a genus to them, if possible - I like to complete a job once I've started it Thanks for chiming in! Monica Monica, you caught me before I could correct my post to say "a photo of the labial side of the tooth." Also, as you noted, the teeth look larger than they actually are, and that can confound the ID. With your desire for completeness of identification, your daughter sounds like she may be a formidable paleontologist in the making! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Monica, Just arrived home after a long day traveling from Vermont to Florida.. I like Sagacious' IDs much better than my own especially on the 1st two teeth. I admit to being rash and overly confused by size, plus rushed... I have a bunch of perfect Bull shark teeth and should be able to match something close. The 5th tooth has the typical "V" groove of a Bull shark. The one I am still considering is the 3rd. Getting late. Will post again tomorrow. Jack 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 Hi @sagacious and @Shellseeker! I've looked into some of your suggestions, and the first two do indeed seem to have the right shape and angle of upper lateral lemon shark teeth! What I saw as serrations on the second tooth must just be the result of tumbling in the water for a very long time, because the first two teeth do look quite similar. And the tiny remnant of serrated shoulder on each does fit with lemon shark, so that's which bag I'll put them into (along with the fourth tooth, which seems to be a lower lemon shark tooth - I'm not going to distinguish between upper and lower teeth, though - I think that would just confuse Viola). The fifth tooth does look like a bull shark tooth! The thick root, clear serrations, and crown shape and angle do match nicely with Carcharhinus leucas so that's how I'll bag it up. As for the slightly more mysterious third tooth - if the sun comes out today I'll try to get a picture of the other side of it - hopefully that'll point us in the right direction re: identification. Thanks again!!! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted July 29, 2017 Author Share Posted July 29, 2017 Hello once again! As promised, here is a picture of the other side of tooth #3: Any ideas as to its identity? @sagacious @Shellseeker Thanks again! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 It may be that other sharks have the bumpy serrations that I associate with GWs.. Here is one from the Peace River. There is no root , so it might equally be Bull or Dusky. I wonder what @Paleoc or @siteseer might say... 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Thanks, that photograph with included size-scale now make me more confident with Shellseeker's initial assessment that tooth #3 is most likely from a great white. The size of the serrations near the tip of the crown (as compared with those toward the base) appear to be a better match with great white than bull shark. I have well over a thousand white shark teeth in my collection, but based on the initial photo, your tooth #3 just seemed a little 'off'. If the tooth is fairly thick in cross-section, perhaps as compared to your other bull shark upper anterior teeth, then I'd say you have your ID. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monica Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 Hi @sagacious! Should I label it as Carcharodon carcharias? I'm just wondering because scientific names are sometimes changed to reflect new knowledge, and since I don't know anything about shark evolution, I defer to others who are more knowledgeable than me Thanks again! Monica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Monica said: Hi @sagacious! Should I label it as Carcharodon carcharias? I'm just wondering because scientific names are sometimes changed to reflect new knowledge, and since I don't know anything about shark evolution, I defer to others who are more knowledgeable than me Thanks again! Monica Hi Monica, I should have used the species names in my reply above, instead of the colloquial names. Yup, I'd label tooth #3 as Carcharodon carcharias. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoc Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Lemon, Lemon (the serrations are simply a chipped edge), bull (serrations are not coarse enough for a white - notice the separation of serrations in his posted tooth), lower blacktip?, bull 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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