Miocene_Mason Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I bought myself this purty fish for relatively cheap (under 25$). It is labeled as so: Aeduella blainvillei (Agassiz) Permian (Rotliegendes) Muse pres d'atun central France Are all these correct? (Muse pres d'atun means a museum close to Autun right?) anyone have any information on the locality, the fish, it's relatives (extinct or extant). Any papers or articles would help, I like to know a bit about specimens I own. i read the (translated) Wikipedia page and it didn't help a whole lot. The stone has other scales all over it, and the seller said there is a specimen on the back, but I guess it isn't all on the stone? 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Maybe @oilshale can chime in here. I can only tell you that the fish is pictured upside down. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: Maybe @oilshale can chime in here. I can only tell you that the fish is pictured upside down. Regards, You are correct, sorry about that. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 I would love to post the Heyler the usual way... however,it's too big You have there a classic Permocarboniferous (European,though not strictly so) type of fish. These paleoniscoids have been mostly described by European ichthyologists,so the literature is either in German or in French;Exceptions being Gottfied's 1987 PZ paper on aeduelliform relationships(based on a cf. Bourbonella),and Stamberg's work (e.g.)on Bohemian aeduellids Musee is "museum" by the way as you can see,aeduellids have comparatively large orbits. Your specimen doen's seem to have them preserved Burgin(1990,his piece on Rotliegend fish("Autunian") of Switzerland 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 uppermost is A.Blainvillei(Poplin & Dutheil,2005) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 All translations mine. 35 rows of lozengiform scales from supracleithurm to caudal region inversion,"peg & socket type" 30 lepidotrichs in the anal fin Muse specimens have about 25 rays in the dorsal fin edit: Muse ,btw,is a town Species probably endemic to the Autun basin,alhought the Gottfried find has thrown some doubt on that. Gottfried himself thinks that one cf specimen is too little to go on to change the ideas about aeduellid paleobiogeography These characters are from the Saar(Germany) basin specimen,the Muse specimens are NOT well-preserved,as such things go 2: isolated maxilla 3:anterior part of body with onset of lateral line 4:detail of dorsal fin insertion 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 eloneslomiscellpaleozichthyol outtake NB LARGE DOWNLOAD ,82 Mb 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Thanks for the information @doushantuo! I'll be going through it all soon. “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marguy Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Muse is a village near Autun; 'la couche à poissons' is a layer in which were found many fishes, and other vertebrates. some years ago, A new excavation site was undertaken for scientific study; The site is currently protected 00b4952840e5d5738a000000_muse.pdf 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marguy Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 http://biogeosciences.u-bourgogne.fr/en/news/44-fr/actualites/374-chantier-de-fouilles-dans-lautunien-du-bassin-dautun-muse (2010 excavation) https://www.academia.edu/1788532/Les_fouilles_paléontologiques_de_Muse_bilan_2011_projets_2012 (excavation report 2011) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marguy Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 sorry, also in french... Les Aeduellidae (Pisces, Actinopterygii) carbonifères et permiens : systématique et étude phylogénétique préliminaire Cécile POPLIN Didier B. DUTHEIL 4251_g05n1a2.pdf 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 13, 2017 Author Share Posted August 13, 2017 @marguy thank you for the pdfs, I'll use google translate. The seller said the fossil was collected more than forty years ago, its cool to know the site where this little guy came out of no longer produces publicly available fossils. Thank you again! “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Hey Mason, how big is your fish? I bought a coprolite from the same location (probably from the same seller). Any chance you could compare the scales on yours to the scales I found in my poo? I'm just curious to see if I have the same fish. 1 Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marguy Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 On 01/08/2018 at 1:46 AM, GeschWhat said: I'm just curious to see if I have the same fish. Hello GeschWat, I think, without guarantee, that the scales on your pictures can belong to Progyrolepis, as well as the coprolite (Progyrolepis = possible cannibal kind, predator at the top of trophic chain) if you want more information about this fish, you can see http://sciencepress.mnhn.fr/sites/default/files/articles/pdf/g1999n2a2.pdf (no scale picture in this paper, mostly bones) [P. Heyleri, from a nearby (from Muse) permian site in French Massif Central] and http://www.geology.cz/bulletin/fulltext/1582_Stamberg_160317.pdf (with detailed pictures of scales... from stephanian ,in Czech Republik) ...but generally, to be sure for id. of Actinopterygian , bone parts of the skull are necessary, or complete fish!!! If you want to see a video about scientific excavation, enjoy https://videotheque.cnrs.fr/visio=4319 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 6 minutes ago, marguy said: Hello GeschWat, I think, without guarantee, that the scales on your pictures can belong to Progyrolepis, as well as the coprolite (Progyrolepis = possible cannibal kind, predator at the top of trophic chain) if you want more information about this fish, you can see http://sciencepress.mnhn.fr/sites/default/files/articles/pdf/g1999n2a2.pdf (no scale picture in this paper, mostly bones) [P. Heyleri, from a nearby (from Muse) permian site in French Massif Central] and http://www.geology.cz/bulletin/fulltext/1582_Stamberg_160317.pdf (with detailed pictures of scales... from stephanian ,in Czech Republik) ...but generally, to be sure for id. of Actinopterygian , bone parts of the skull are necessary, or complete fish!!! If you want to see a video about scientific excavation, enjoy https://videotheque.cnrs.fr/visio=4319 Thank you so much! Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 @GeschWhat Sorry I missed your comment, I am not at home right now but it’s probably a little under 4 inches. Looks like you already got your answer! We may have gotten it from the same seller, they have since sold a few more. Cool copro btw 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Nice fishy! Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miocene_Mason Posted August 10, 2018 Author Share Posted August 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Nice fishy! Thank you! Had a chance to find some palaeoniscoid fish bits yesterday (below, the silvery dots, though nothing as complete as the A. blainvillei. 1 “...whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved.” ~ Charles Darwin Happy hunting, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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